Discussions of Mormons and Mormon life, Book of Mormon issues and evidences, and other Latter-day Saint (LDS) topics.

Wednesday, August 18, 2004

Is the Bible Complete?

A number of LDS apologists have written articles refuting the common idea that the Bible is complete and that all scripture has been given. One example is my Mormon Answers essay, Mormons and the Bible. A relatively new and much more compact resource is a two-page brochure from FAIRLDS.org, "Is the Bible Complete?" This can serve as a handout to give to those who have sincere questions on the topic.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

If the Bible isn't complete, what do we do about it? That's a rather obnoxious question and one obvious LDS answer is that a person should read the other books of revelation that have been given.

Danithew
http://www.wump.info/wumpblog

The Chief Judge said...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&ncid=585&e=1&u=/nm/20040817/sc_nm/peru_ruins_dc

this link is from yahoo.com. Apparently archaeologists have discovered an ancient peruvian city dating back 1,700 years ago. The city is said to have been inhabited by white Indians. This might be interesting to read.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote: "If the Bible isn't complete, what do we do about it? That's a rather obnoxious question and one obvious LDS answer is that a person should read the other books of revelation that have been given."

The purpose of the question isn't to be obnoxious, it's to point out the Protestant fallacy that the Bible -- being inerrant and infallible -- is the only word of God and a source of authority in an of itself. The scriptural record, however, paints a completely different picture: One of a covenant people (Israel or the NT church) lead by one who receives ongoing revelation. In the absence of continual revelation, Protestants have replaced God with the Bible as the final authority in all things.

Arthur Sido said...

This line of questioning falls into the same category as the 8th Article of Faith "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" If it is translated incorrectly, will you show us where? If we have a "prophet, seer and revelator" on the earth today and for the last 150 or so years, why hasn't he corrected it? Why was Joseph Smith's "translation" of the Bible never finished? Why would God or His prophet allow His children to study from a defective scripture? Most importantly, why are passages that allegedly support mormonism translated OK but those that refute mormonism always false? It is a mormon bogeyman.

Taken as a whole, the Bible is a complete work. It is obscene to think that God, the Creator of the universe, would be so helpless that He would allow His Scriptures to be perverted by devious man. The prophets testified of the coming of the Messiah in the Old Testament and the New Testament details the fulfillment of that prophecy. Everything one needs to know to be saved is in the Bible. Acts 10:9 tells us: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Not that you have to be baptized by a mormon priest, or go through a mormon temple or any of the other various mormon commandments. The thief on the cross was never baptized as far as we know, Christ told him "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise". Today, not after accepting mormonism in the spirit prison and being vicariously baptized. Church governance, the Christian life and the responsibility of those who are saved are all outlined for us in detail. What do the mormons scriptures bring us? God living on Kolob, polygamy, false and unfulfilled prophecy. The mormon scriptures do not provide "another testament" of Jesus Christ, they provide a testament of another Jesus.

A quick side note on this comment: "Protestants have replaced God with the Bible as the final authority in all things" We believe God is the author of the Bible, that it is His inspired, inerrant word. We worship not the Bible but it's Divine Author. It is Mormons who have replaced the God of the Bible as the supreme authority with an infinitely fallible manmade prophet and false scriptures like the "Book of Abraham".

Anonymous said...

Don't forget to wipe the venom off your lips. By your same logic, all sincere, misguided Mormons (as you infer) who seek Christ will go to heaven along with the thief on the cross.

MrWhipple said...

Arthur Sido made a number of assertions that are perfect Protestant dogma, but are not Biblical. In the legal world, a defense attorney would call out at this point, "Objection, your honor: Assumes facts not in evidence!"

To wit:

* "Taken as a whole, the Bible is a complete work." (Only it doesn't say so.)
* "It is obscene to think that God, the Creator of the universe, would be so helpless that He would allow His Scriptures to be perverted by devious man." (Assumes that God want to keep scriptural purity, but does not have the power. The Bible doesn't make either of these claims.)
* "Everything one needs to know to be saved is in the Bible." (Only it doesn't say so.)
* "Acts 10:9 tells us: 'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.'" (Assumes that this one scriptural prooftext is all the Bible has to say on the obligations of the believer.)
* "Not that you have to be baptized by a mormon priest, or go through a mormon temple or any of the other various mormon commandments." (Again, assumes that the Bible is the final word and that no other commandments can or will ever be given. The Bible doesn't make either of these claims.)
* "The thief on the cross was never baptized as far as we know, Christ told him 'Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise'. Today, not after accepting mormonism in the spirit prison and being vicariously baptized." (Assumes that "paradise" is the final state of the righteous, equivalent to heaven. This needs to be argued, not asserted.)
* "Church governance, the Christian life and the responsibility of those who are saved are all outlined for us in detail." (Again, assumes that the Bible is the final word on these things, when it itself makes no such claim.)
* What do the mormons [sic] scriptures bring us? God living on Kolob, polygamy, false and unfulfilled prophecy." (Claims that these are the only things in Mormon scripture [they're not] and that they're false. This needs to be argued, not asserted.)
* "The mormon scriptures do not provide 'another testament' of Jesus Christ, they provide a testament of another Jesus." (A clever turn of phrase, but -- again -- asserted, not argued.)
* "We believe God is the author of the Bible, that it is His inspired, inerrant word." (Only it doesn't say so.)
* "We worship not the Bible but it's Divine Author." (If this was true, Protestants would be open to additional scripture and modern revelation.)
* "It is Mormons who have replaced the God of the Bible as the supreme authority with an infinitely fallible manmade prophet and false scriptures like the 'Book of Abraham'." (Again, assertions without argumentation. A demonstration of where Mormons have claimed God is "fallible" would be helpful.)

Anonymous said...

Question for anyone: Why does Mr Sido or anyone else attack the Mormon church before they understand it? They have no idea what the church is actually about, but they know all about those Mormons and must attack!! Its a source of frustration for me. If they would just listen and try to understand, they wouldn't look like such fools. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree with or accept the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the kingdom of God on Earth, but people should understand before they criticize. Mr Sido, its time to stop attacking your Mormon straw man. You're incapable of effectively criticizing this church because you have absolutely no idea of what it is. You don't know the church's doctrines, it's views on particular scriptures, the church's long-standing absolute rebuttals of tired, misguided attacks people like yourself have conjured up, you use rhetoric in place of facts, and, perhaps worst of all, you have already decided that you are right. Why will you not listen?

-Adam

MrWhipple said...

According to Arthur Sido's profile...

http://www.blogger.com/profile/3024639

...he once was LDS, but is now no longer. Unfortunately, he's switched to what appears to be a fundamentalist, biblicist view of God and revelation.

It's telling that one of his three favorite books on Mormonism is Richard Abanes' "One Nation Under Gods." Wow, what a stinker that was. Anyone who's getting his knowledge of things LDS from Abanes has got some serious source issues.

Anonymous said...

I have read this with interest. I am not LDS nor do I believe anything of the LDS religion to be true or arguable. The comments of the need for assertation not argumentation are half right. There is, as always, a twist to the words of the Mormon view. There is no need to assertain any validity of the Bible. We, as christian have the history and archeology to support what we believe. I agree it may not be complete but I do know that what we do have is true. I also know from investigation into your own works and words of your prophets and revelators much of what you follow cannot be trusted or is truth. Your organization hids behind false assertations and outright lies to prove your truth. I.E. the assertation of archeological evidence supported by the Smithsonian and Nationanl Geographic. They publically and vehmently deny any connetion or confirmation of any such support or evidence to be true. If you really want to attack mainstream christianity understand we come from a stance of truth we do not hide behind bogus stories and willful dreams. Any questions you can write me at wsmwhit5@yahoo.com

Schmitty said...

I just read the thread of responses, and I would like to respond to the last post:
“There is, as always, a twist to the words of the Mormon view.” – This is never the case of non-Mormons discussing LDS doctrine? The case comes back to objective vs subjective discussion. The statement “we do not hide behind bogus stories and willful dreams” shows that the author was coming from an objective point of view – and also uninformed. How many non-Christians view the Bible as “bogus stories” and “willful dreams”? How much criticism, research, and scholarly debate exists showing how much of the NT has been changed, altered, add where-to, and deleted? A classic example is the story of the adulterous woman brought to Jesus. Many non-LDS scholars agree that based on textual research of original texts that the story was added hundreds of years after original authorship. Is that not a “bogus story” then? Did you know that there are many scholars, non-LDS of course, who state that there is really no archeological evidence outside of Judaism, and Judaic based records, that affirms that the Israelites were ever in Egypt? (I make this statement based on several middle-eastern archeology classes I have taken at Portland State University and the various texts we had to use: I personally believe that they were there.)

Let’s go to the next primary argument – archeological evidence. Let’s not worry about what the Smithsonian and National Geographic say (they always slam the historical accuracy of the Bible anyhow). Can you please explain to me how a young man in 1820 could write a fable written about a group of people around 600BC in Israel and have extreme historical, political, cultural, and theological accuracy? Lets just focus on the first two books, if have not read the book they are called 1 Nephi and 2 Nephi. Now remember, many aspects of that society were not discovered until the early and mid 1900’s. Rather than just state that there are no archeological evidences show me, and while you are at it explain how Joseph Smith did it. Bring out some points.

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