Why I Believe the Book of Mormon Is True
In response to my recent post about the thief who was converted by a stolen Book of Mormon, one critic (whose comment was deleted for her inarticulate use of profanity) was shocked at my gullibility. It seemed that she thought I based my belief on faith promoting rumors fabricated by others. Not so. My acceptance of the Book of Mormon is the result of my personal pursuit for truth and the experiences I have had with it at a spiritual and intellectual level over the years. The fact that a thief could be converted by it has little to do with whether it's true or not - that was not my point. In fact, I'm surprised at the ire that little story raised.
Even the most hardened of critics should recognize that the Book of Mormon has touched the lives of millions of people. Deluded or not, many have been converted to the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ ("Mormonism") by study of that book. Because of that book, many have wanted to become better people, to give up their misdeeds, to gain forgiveness, and even to become Latter-day Saints. That should not be surprising. So if the book can touch so many lives and make so many people wish to follow Christ, why should it be surprising that at least one thief was among the crowd of converts? The story is touching, but is not meant to prove the Book of Mormon is true, and does not even prove any sort of divine presence in the world. It is merely a rather dramatic example of what should be common knowledge: the book changes the lives of many people who read it. Critics can comfort themselves with a belief that it's all just a foolish delusion, but there's no denying that lives are changed by whatever is in that book.
Among those lives is mine. Yes, I was born in the Church, but at age 14, I could see that staying a member of the Church would be a foolish thing to do if it were not true. Why pay tithing, why go on a mission, why even go home teaching if it was all fake? Doing such could even be morally wrong (teaching others to believe a lie? - not good!), and I wanted to do what's right (but, frankly, I especially did not want to pay unnecessary tithing and waste two years of my life). The Church had taught me repeatedly that each individual needed to find out for themselves if the Church was true, and the obvious key to doing that was not attempting to sort out various interpretations of what happened with polygamy or the Mountain Meadow Massacre or puzzling statements in the Journal of Discourses, but to determine if the Book of Mormon was divine or a man-made hoax.
We are very serious about the Book of Mormon: if it is false, then Joseph Smith was not a prophet. If it is true, then he must have been some kind of a prophet after all, and the Church's claims of divine origins should then at least merit our attention. The Book of Mormon is surely the most obvious place for serious investigation for anyone who wishes to explore the validity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The last chapter in the Book of Mormon offers an inspired key to exploring the validity of the text. We are counseled by Moroni to ponder the book, to contemplate the great things described therein, and then to ask the Lord with real intent to know if it is true. In my case, at age 14, I decided to read the book. I should say that at that point, there was no doubt in my mind that God was real and that prayers could be answered - I had had many positive experiences with prayer and truly knew of the reality of God. But what of the Church itself? I would read the Book of Mormon and then pray to get an answer.
Unfortunately, my quest was complicated by my adolescent pride (now replaced with a much more wholesome middle-aged pride). With a somewhat cocky attitude, I wanted to see how fast I could get through it (bragging rights of some kind, I guess). I took up the challenge and zoomed through the book over a period of about a week during the summer. "Reached my goal - awesome. Well, that wasn't so bad. And now I'll pray. True or not? . . ." Nothing. No answer, nothing came. I was puzzled. I read Moroni 10:3-5 again and realized that I had not done as counseled -- there had been little pondering, just rushing through the text, and reading in part for the wrong reason. I didn't have much more information about the meaning of the book than when I had begun. I realized I would need to take more time, be more sincere, and really think about what I was reading. Whether it was true or not, this made a lot of sense. We should use our own mind as much as possible, and let God fill in the blanks.
With a slightly more humble attitude, I took up the challenge again, this time reading more slowly to ponder the meaning of the text and to consider on my own whether what I was reading was fabricated by man or really represented an inspired, scriptural text. I found richness in the text and many insights into life and Christ and religion - but was it true? After pondering the text, I then approached the Lord in prayer one evening, sincerely asking for guidance about the text and explaining what tentative conclusions I had been able to draw, then asking if this text was true, explaining that it was very important to know, and that I wished to do what was right.
I have shared my experience with others before, but here let me just say that on that night, about 30 minutes later, I walked away with a powerful and profound personal testimony that God loved me, that Christ was real, and that the Book of Mormon was indeed a divine testament of Christ, a second witness for His divinity. And yes, that meant that somehow, Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.
The experience was powerful and beyond wishful thinking, pizza-induced heartburn, or self-hypnosis, though you are all free to dispute that. For you, it proves nothing and should not make you feel threatened. But for me, it was just the beginning of what has been a lifelong series of fascinating spiritual and intellectual experiences and insights confirming that the Book of Mormon is not a work of fiction authored by a nineteenth century fraud, but a sophisticated ancient text with divine origins. I share some of the intellectual reasons for that point of view on my Book of Mormon Evidences page, but there are many more such issues that I would like to discuss.
My personal testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon is why I am a member of this Church. It's why I went on a two-year mission. It's why I married in the Temple. It's why I have made many sacrifices for what I believe to be the Church of Jesus Christ. It's why I can be patient at the foolishness of other members, even occasional Church leaders, who are all mortal like me, for I know it's not their Church - it's the Church of Jesus Christ, whom the Book of Mormon has helped me to know and love much better. I love the Bible, especially the New Testament, but you will find no other book more Christ-centered and more able to bring a man to Christ than the Book of Mormon, in my opinion.
My sins, my failings through life, my many weaknesses (some of which are evident in my blogging) make me every bit as guilty as the thief who robbed Sister Cruz of her Book of Mormon. And like the thief, the Book of Mormon has helped me to wish to change, to seek forgiveness, to overcome my many flaws and to (at least occasionally) yearn to follow Christ. If it's all a delusion, if there is no God and no truth, then I'm puzzled, for it's been like the sweet meal of a dream that, upon waking, leaves my stomach full, my body strengthened, and my senses enriched by the persistent aroma and delightful aftertaste. (There is even a need to brush and floss.) A nourishing delusion indeed. May you all be so afflicted.
I hope that if I can achieve one thing with this blog it would be to encourage some of you, LDS or not, to actually read and ponder the Book of Mormon. Maybe even pray while you're at it. Anti-Mormon ministers will plead with you to do anything BUT pray for guidance in this manner, but I hope you'll always turn to the Lord when you are seeking to understand divine truth. He's the One Being we can always trust.
posted @ 8:41 PM [Permalink]
139 Comments:
I once enrolled in the Farms organization, hoping that the intellectual side would help my testimony.
It made no difference whatsoever to me. It is the New testament and Book of Mormon. It is simply the life and example of the Savior that leads one on.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Natalie; I've been to your webblog, and I recall a comment you deleted. Also, I've read on your site that you'd like Mormon's to leave you alone...I think you get my point.
Mike: Noah's Ark is reported to have had windows (Gen. 6:16). There have been logical responses to all of your criticisms. Also, I know you were writing Jeff, but I was baptised when I was 21 and also served a mission. In both my own conversion and in working as a missionary, the method was always "Pray and find out for yourself." In sunday school I teach the 16-18 year olds. I tell them to "pray and find out for themselves." I used to teach 11 year olds. I taught the same thing. My wife felt the same way and when she was 13, was prepared to leave the church if her prayers weren't answered. Her prayers were answered. My prayers were answered. You may chose not to believe, and I respect that. When good meaning missionaries knock on your door, you don't have to answer, or can just say "not interested." We aren't going to not send more missionaries, because frankly, we're not that organized. We don't have a "do not call list." We probably never will have sucha list. Sorry for the inconvenience. We really do believe this stuff we are pushing. You don't have to, but don't yell at Jeff, I for one, think he's really an honest wonderful faithful man, and a good example to the rest of the church.
-Matt Witten
I thought I could restore your comment, Natalie, to quote the non-offending parts, but I couldn't, even though I did not choose the "delete forever" option when I zapped it. Well, feel free to go ahead and make your comment again, but without the profanity - but if it is still as offensive as I recall it being, I'm not sure why I should allow it to stand.
Profanity merits instant deletion, even if you don't choose the worse possible words. I also do not wish to give bandwidth to sites that I consider anti-Mormon, so leave the link off. I know you don't like that, but that's just me. The internet is filled with anti-Mormon sites, and I don't have a desire to increase their visibility.
If I misrepresented the way you took offense at my remarks, or misunderstood your challenge to my belief in the Book of Mormon, I'm sorry.
Since your latest comment again violates my rule of not providing links to anti-sites, let me reproduce it here but without the link:
Jeff,
You are a hypocrite. You keep referring to my comment, now even with a posting all on it's own, and telling everyone you deleted my comment for "profanity" (There might have been ONE questionable word in there. And it was not one of the major ones.)
But you sum up what you THINK I was saying in your post. Now, alone, that is not egregious.
But, see, NO ONE can look at what I said, aside from what YOU want them to believe. And that is where you have erred.
There is no longer a point of reference.
You could have, for example, addressed my comment, like I do when I get negative comments. Perhaps even deleted the offending word.
But I NEVER delete the original comment. Anyone can always reference it.
No one has that option here. They just have to take YOUR word for it. What does THAT sound like?
You're a hypocrite. You are doing exactly what you accuse the "anti" Mormons of doing, including "taking things out of context."
Of course, you had a great teacher. Delete and hide what you don't want people to know. That's the Mormon Church motto.
While I don't take issue with you deleting the comment, (and I even apologized for using a "profanity" on your blog) once you DID that, you lost the right to comment on it, or to try and make me look bad by paraphrasing it.
YOU owe me an apology. I know I will never get it. Natalie, you're right that I should have edited your comment and posted it again. I'm sorry for not doing that. When I saw the profanity, I was already late and had to rush, so I just deleted it. I referred to it later when I had more time, but your comment was already gone. Sure, call me a hypocrite and all that - you seem to enjoy calling me names, which is cool, I guess - but let me remind me that as the owner of this tiny spot of the blogosphere, I am sensitive to offending comments and reserve the right to delete them for profanity, inappropriate links, or just because I'm in a bad mood. And I reserve the right to comment on them even if they are deleted. Those rules may seem severe and unfair, but the effort I've oput into this blog or my Web pages was not meant to give equal voice to the already incredibly noisy anti-Mormons of the world.
Norton, get thee to a museum. Elephants - OK, mastodons and mammoths - were on this continent hundreds of years before Columbus, contrary to your claim. Though long extinct, a legitimate issue is whether pockets of them survived into Jaredite times or not. It's not impossible.
Steel? Sure - meteoric iron alloys that modern scientists call "steel" (especially iron-nickel alloys) were present in the Americas. Meteoric iron deposits were mined and used by the Olmecs for mirrors, for example.
Barley? Verified recently.
The French farewell? My goodness, Norton, the use of "adieu" - like all the other modern words in the Book of Mormon - is the result of TRANSLATING the text. The Book of Mormon doesn't suggest that French or English was being spoken in 600 B.C.! Haven't you noticed all the puzzling English words in the King James Bible?
Fossil horses are well known in the Americas, and again the issue is whether pockets of them survived or whether another species of animal was referred to in the text. Not a clearcut issue, certainly, but not one for rapid dismissal of the book.
Mike Norton made the following post which I deleted because of his violation of my previously stated policy: links to anti-Mormon sites will generally not be allowed. I'm not here to give more bandwidth to the nastier side of the Web. But for your enlightenment, here is what Mike had to say:
Ha ha...Jeff, you're so dang funny. You said, "The Church had taught me repeatedly that each individual needed to find out for themselves if the Church was true..."
Now, is this before or after they baptise you at the age of 8? Kinda pointless to encourage people to "find out if it's true" years after they have joined, isn't it?
Also, the number of anachronisms in the Book of Mormon alone prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the book is not what it claims to be.
For example, imagine I showed you a hand written journal and claimed it was from General George Washington and it was written during the Revolutionary War yet it contained the following passage,
"I faxed instructions to Thos. Jefferson and told him to meet me at the Rail Road station at midnight..."
Would you honestly believe for one second that this journal was what I said it was? Could a journal from George Washington really make reference to things that wouldn't be invented (fax machines, rail roads) for many, many years?
Likewise, the Book of Mormon is so full of anachronisms that NOBODY that has even the slightest grasp of pre-Columbian America can take it seriously. I mean really, ELEPHANTS in America hundreds of years before Columbus? Horses? Wheat? Barley? Steel weapons? A certain French farewell? How about those WINDOWS on the Jaredite SUBMARINES?!?!?!
Need I go on?
Jeff, you remind me a lot of Joseph Smith. He too liked to dabble in magic and his specialty was getting people to believe his outlandish lies. You two have quite a bit in common.
Norton
My response is given in my comment directly above, with further details documented on my LDSFAQ page about alleged problems in the Book of Mormon.
But Mike, as a friendly tip, when regurgitating anti-Mormon attacks, please don't repeat the lamest arguments ever devised. There are plenty of legitimate questions one can raise, but the thing about "adieu" in the Book of Mormon really qualifies as one of the top 10 silliest attacks ever. It won't help your cause. The point is that "adieu" - which is a perfectly valid English word found in the 1828 Websters Dictionary, obviously borrowed brom French, of course - was used by a translator to convey in modern language what an ancient writer said. To those who understand that the Book of Mormon is a translation - which is 99% of Latter-day Saints, I hope - the use of that argument immediately calls into question the credibility of the attacker. Not that I want you to have any more credibility, but I can't help passing on some constructive criticism.
I was impressed recently by this article about steel.
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/050801steel.html
Dear Anonymous,
The ONLY comments I have EVER deleted from my blog were those posted by someone who called me a word that starts with C (can't write it here, according to Jeff's blog rules, and frankly, don't really WANT to, since it is probably the ugliest word ever) and asked me how large my breasts were--and not that nicely. Other than that, they all stand.
Anything that comes from a REAL Mormon, I keep. I know that Mormons aren't always going to like what I have to say, and I respect that. They have the right to post it. They do NOT have the right to ask me about my sexual preferences (married, heterosexual, children) or question my chest size.
Geez, anon, could you be the twisted ....
Eh, better stop now.
Jeff,
Thank you for your apology. You are a gentleman. While I wish I could repost my comment, I cannot. It was spur-of-the-moment impassioned prose that I cannot recapture.
I wish you had seen it for what it was. It was an honest desire to say, to an obviously intelligent man, “How can you fall for this? How can you be so duped?”
I wish that I could get across to you, and other Mormons, that I am not trying to be mean, snide or cruel. Rather, I am as bewildered by your propensity to believe what I see as unfathomable as you are by my inability to embrace what you see as the only truth. As desperate as you are to bear your "testimony," so am I desperate to say, "But wait..." But we are of a different breed. You will never listen to my reasoning, because you are a man of reason in some things, but of the heart in so many others. You believe your heart.
Should I fault you?
Probably not.
I see you falling into a trap, just as you see ME falling into a trap.
It’s sixes, except I don’t believe I have the only real thing in life, and you do.
Well, good luck on that journey.
Godspeed.
OK, thank you Natalie. And I actually enjoy many of your comments, so I'm really quite sorry for offending you.
Nat:
I certainly am not the sick twisted... but the comment I was referrig to, you actually did post later on, to be fair. I found it quite funny. It was really long and weird. From a Mormon...
-Matt Witten
Matt,
Thank goodness you aren't Sicktwisted. That guy was a MAJOR pain in the, er, patootie. The FBI agreed he was just trying to scare me. Good thing I don't scare easily.
I think I remember the post you are referring to, but I didn't delete it. I changed my posting method from Blogger to Haloscan after Sicktwisted started taunting me with personal details of my life, along with those nasty words and questions, and so all old comments were lost. At least I think that's what happened.
That was a strange post. I think he was smoking the ganja while he was defending the truths of Mormonism. Never a good combo.
Natalie, I'm so sorry that sickos harassed you like that on your blog. Revolting.
That's the sort of thing that most influenced me against having my own blog. I'm sorry too, Natalie.
Good news! I forgot that I signed up for comments to be sent to an e-mail account, so I do have a record of Natalie's deleted comment that I found tonight. Out of respect for her (disagreements notwithstanding), I post it below (minus one little word):
Jeff,
I never realized how gullible you really were. It's almost sad. No, it IS truly sad. Some of your postings gave me so much hope that you were flexible, that you realized life just ain't so easy to explain.
But I was wrong.
Why would you fall for this? Are you really so desperate to believe there is ONE TRUE THING that you will latch onto anything?
I know life isn't easy. I wish there was an easy answer, but believing things that aren't plausible is NOT that answer.
Jeff, please, I know you are a good man. I know you truly believe you are doing a good work here. I see that from your postings.
But you are so, so deluded. You have been led astray. I wish I had the truth to offer UP to you, like so many would do, but I don't. I'm not recruiting for any other religion, for any other truth, except for the ONE that you owe yourself.
There is no ONE TRUTH. Sad. But, maybe that's the only truth in life.
You're a smart man. And if you look deep inside, and if you open up your thinking and LOOK at what you're seeing here, you're going to figure out that this Mormon story is all just, well, ****. Sorry for the profanity. I know you don't like it, but you need to hear it.
http://www.nataliercollins.com/weblog
Well, there you are. Actually, it wasn't as bad as I thought, and admit that my recollection of it was not completely accurate when I responded to my memory of it later. OK, Natalie thinks I'm a hopeless fool, and is trying to help me out with her comments. She hopes I'll change. Guess that's mutual.
Those who have encountered Mike Norton and his web site might be interested in reading this response:
JosephToldTheTruth.com
Jeff,
I most certainly do NOT think you are a hopeless fool. I wouldn't even BOTHER to read or comment on your blog if I were of that opinion.
As I have noted in the past, you seem like a very smart, very genuine man who is a LOT less cynical than I am. I know I've said that more than once. (At least the smart part. And I don't hide my cynical nature.)
I don't understand your mindset, and that probably won't change. It seems to me you are reaching, reaching, reaching, constantly, to try to prove something that really isn't provable. But I suppose that's because you TRULY do believe it. So you will latch onto those truths.
And you, obviously, don't understand my mindset, which is TOTALLY understandable. Writers are nuts.
I think the problem is we were both labeling each other. I labeled you the rabid true-believing-Mormon and you labeled me the rabid-anti-Mormon-with-an-axe-to-grind.
It colored both of our responses to each other.
Surprise, surprise, we're both just people.
Welcome to the jungle.
Thanks for restoring my comment.
"I'm not recruiting for any other religion, for any other truth, except for the ONE that you owe yourself. There is no ONE TRUTH. Sad. But, maybe that's the only truth in life."
Does anyone besides me see the self-contradiction in that?
Does that last "maybe" excuse the false reasoning?
And, if it's only a "maybe", then why is she so adamant that others accept it, and trying to cram it down their throats?
Nobility is admiting we don't know all truth. Claiming that there is no truth is not noble, and is more along the lines of churlish.
Nicely said, Natalie. Thanks!
Anon,
I did not say there was NO truth. I said there was no ONE truth. Vastly different. And exactly how am I cramming this down anyone's throat? It's just how I feel.
Read closer before you post.
Natalie
"I faxed instructions to Thos. Jefferson and told him to meet me at the Rail Road station at midnight..."
faxed- to send a facsimile or an exact copy
Rail Road station- a way station on the road called Rail
Perhaps rather than dismissing things off hand, we should see if we can take things that sound achronistic and see if they can fit in the time period when they were written. If the Book of Mormon says adieu, that doesn't mean that Joeph Smith was a fraud because there were no Frenchmen in the New World then, but that he used a modern phrase to express the sentiment of the author of the original text.
Good Golly(<--said in deference to Jeff's no profanity policy), Floyd, have you been DRINKING?
I read this SIX times, and it didn't make sense once.
And I WRITE for a living.
I think I'll go back to dealing with Primary Parades(on my blog, which I won't link to, cuz Jeff doesn't like that, either), and the anger of the out-of-state Mormons toward the Utah Mormons because they never GOT one.
It was easier to understand. Everybody wants to be part of a parade.
Natalie
Nat, I'm an out-of-Utah mormon, and I never even heard of primary parades. But you do have somewhat of a point. Some out-of-Utah mormons are angry (or at least mildly ticked) at Utah mormons for some of the same reasons you are. Some can be real jerks, either in a self-righteous way, or in a jack-mormon kind of way. But the Utah mormons don't have a monopoly on jerkitude. The Nephite disease can strike anywhere. I constantly fight the swelled-head syndrome, and I don't always succeed.
I think God sometimes has a sense of humor when He uses certain words in the scriptures. One prophet told the King of Judah he was going to Babylon, and the other prophet told him he'd never see Babylon. The king thought they were liars since they contradicted each other. However, the Babylonians blinded the King of Judah, then took him to Babylon, thereby fulfilling both prophets' prophecies.
Hi Everyone,
I would like to make a comment regarding the statement "There is no ONE TRUTH. Sad. But, maybe that's the only truth in life.
It is the unfortunate nature of human beings to believe that their truth is THE truth. However, I have had the opportunity to find out that this is not the case.
I was raised as a Catholic, and I'm very grateful for it. I've been to Lutheran services, Trinity Baptist services, Christian Servicemen's services, Agape services, Assembly of God Services, Southern Baptist services, Methodist services, United Church of Christ services, nad many others. This was due to the fact that I had so many friends in each of these different denominations. I enjoyed all of them, but there was one thing that bothered me.
Namely, the fact that they all claimed to be THE church. Yet, they did not teach the sam ethings. Some taught that baptism was for infants, while others said Adults. Some taught that only certain people could partake of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, while others allowed it for anyone. Some taught that there is only salvation for those who are born again, and others say it is only for those who are born again and baptised. As I'm sure you can imagine, the list goes on.
I know one thing is sure. God is not the author of confusion. My sister, a Devout Catholic, has this quote as her sign-off for her e-mails.
"Right is still right if nobody is right,and wrong is still wrong if everybody is wrong,"
--Archbishop Fulton J Sheen
I would go a step further and say that truth is still truth if no one believes it, and lies are still lies if everyone believes them.
There is only one truth. That is a fact. One truth cannot be contradicted by another truth, for one would then be an untruth.
It is contingent upon us, as children of God, to seek HIS truth. IT is the ONLY truth. The only question that remains is this:
1. When one finds the truth, will one be open to it, and mold one's self to fit that truth?
OR
2. Will one reject the truth becasue it is too difficult to accept, and try to mold the truth to fit their beliefs?
Doing the first will bring us closer to our Savior who is the way, the TRUTH and the Life.
Doing the second will bring us closer to delusion, for shaping the truth to fit our needs twists it into something that is no longer truth.
God bless you in your endeavors to find the Truth. There is only one out there.
Peace and Love.
And Please excuse the typos....it's late and I should have been in bed hours ago....
I just ran across your website and after reading some of it I have a few ideas I'd like to share.
I myself like to criticize. However, when it comes to my Mormon faith, all I can think of when I'm presented with these questions is why would someone (Joseph Smith) face all of the contention and persecution over something that they made up. There is no way I would die over something I made up.
I understand that this is be no means some statistic or achaelogical fact or other logical reasoning, but sometimes do we get caught up in these things? Is it OK to not forgive someone after you've done it 70 x 7 times already? I mean obviously it's CLEARLY pointed out the we must forgive 490 times, logically, once its that 491'st offence, it's fair game.
Don't be blind to the minor things, yet dont get caught up in them, don't loose the broad perspective.
Thank you all for your comments. I have never found a greater truth than I have had with the Church Of Jesus Christ. They teach the truth that all will be known eventually when the seventh seal is finally broken. Your own truth is: Are you living by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God ? If you are, you must be operating the power that is promised and told about by Jesus. The trouble is that most people are Thomas's of the world and need to see before they believe. Oh ye have little faith !
Could it just be that the Book of Mormon is a collection of excellent sermons combined with some false historic information? That would make it innocuous, helpful but not necessarily a source of perfect truth.
Hi Jeff,
Finally, I found you... I just want to put a comment. I believe you on believing the Book of Mormon. I believe only to Jesus Christ d' Truth, d Way and d' Life. I was not born here in Utah, i was not born from any State, I was born in a third world country with poverty, hunger and disease.
I consider Joseph Smith a 19th century religious guy, just like Google a new way of Internet. So, Book of Mormon is made in America, Joseph is born in America, Mormanity is born in America. You just want to be different because you were born probably in America.
I don't believe the Book Of Mormon is true. I believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet along with Bringham Young. Matthew 7:15 Jesus says beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing...He also said in Matthew 24:11," Many false prophets shall rise and shall decieve many...Please go on to read Matthew 24:24, John4:1. Joseph Fielding Smith said the following :"Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, devinely called, properly annointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground." When you read Deuteronomy 18:22 it sets up atest for prophets. Then go onto read Galations 1:8-9 It says if anyone preaches another gospel than that which he and the other apostles preached, that person shall be eternally condemned. Let's see the book of mormon fits into that category. As for the prophets that the mormon's so much believe in: Joseph smith said that tall men dressed as Quakers live on the moon, Bringham Young said that men live on the sun as well, Joseph Smith prophesied that Jesus would return by 1891, and Bringham Young prophesied that the Civil War would not free the slaves. That shouts false prophesy to me. I'll tell you as I was told one day pray about it. God will show you the truth, you just have to be willing to accept it. I pray that everyone who reads this,that God will open their eyes to His truth. Please look deeply atthe Mormon religion really study the covenants and doctrines and the Book of Mormon and compare that with your study of the Holy Bible and God will open your eyes to the truth and show you the contradictions of God's Word(Bible) and man's word(book of mormon).
Anyone who believes in God and that Jesus died for his sins, and that God answers prayer, who sincerely reads The Book Of Mormon, who prays to God asking for knowledge of its truth, will find out that it is true.
But for those who can not bring themselves to read it sincerely, please be faithful in your churches, whatever they may be.
There are so many causes that are utterly crucial to our right to retaining this blessed land, that we as God-fearing people must unite in Christ. If we don't the lion will rip and tear asunder, none shall deliver, meaning that we will have this glorious land taken from us because we have not repented of our wickedness.
As long as we have state sponsored murder of innocent unborn children, and if we legalize and legitimize gay marriage, we as a nation are forfeiting the Lord's blessing of protection that we have heretofore enjoyed within North America.
That should unite us in purpose, even if we don't go to the same church on Sunday. Our common goal should be to convert each person more fully to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, no matter which denomination they attend. That is my goal. If they decide to join my LDS church, then that is icing on the cake.
I am a devout Catholic who has spent a great deal of time coming to that realization. Along the way I've explored various christian faiths, buddhism, and taken the mormon discussions on three occasions. I left my church for many years, but always came back because all of those other faiths were lacking. This has been a 20 year process. I have read and prayed sincerely about the Book of Mormon and in the end I've been left with one overwhelming truth.
The Book of Mormon is not scripture. There are some wisdoms in it, some good thoughts, but taken as a whole, God's word does not lie there. I say that for many reasons, but what strikes me as the greatest reason is that the Book of Mormon is not self sustaining. It needs a man, Joseph Smith, in order to survive.
If you look at the Bible, God's word, it lives and breathes independently from its authors. The Book of Mormon can not survive unless Joseph Smith's legacy and credibility remain untarnished. Such reliance on a human being can not be from God. God sustains himself without us, God's words and his laws sustain themselves without us.
The truth about God is that he doesn't need us, he lives and is eternal without us. But the magnificance of God is that he loves us and is with us always. That's another shortcoming of Mormon teachings.
Under mormon doctrine, God was once a man. As such he is limited to being only in certain places. I may not be getting that exactly correct by the way, but the point I'm making is that Jesus tells us that God is with us in all things at all times. God is eternal and omnipotent. Mormon teachings only allow for us to feel God's spirit with us, and only if we are not sinning. But Jesus' teachings are that God is with at all times no matter how bad we screw up.
I find no hope in the Book of Mormon, but the Bible, the New Testament especially talks about nothing but hope. Jesus tells us that he is with us at our darkest times. Our darkest times are when we are sinning and suffering. If one follows the teachings of the Book of Mormon Jesus and the Holy Spirit desert us when we are sinning. That's a direct contradiction of what Christ tells us in each of the four gospels and the rest of the New Testament.
I've written on what I see as some of the contradictions present in Mormon doctrine. As I conclude I would point out one of the most stark of the contradictions I see in the Book of Mormon. If you listen to Joseph Smith's teachings in the Doctrine and Covenants, he talks about God only giving revelation to one person to whom he has given the keys to receive all of the revelations. The general meaning of that is that God will only reveal new doctrine to his prophet here on earth, Gordon B. Hinckley.
But if you read the Bible, God has always revealed messages to many people. David was spoken to as a boy. Mary received the greatest message of all. Neither were preists or prophets. The fact is if you follow Joseph Smith's doctrine, if God chose to reveal himself to a boy in the woods again (see Joseph Smith history)not one Mormon apostle or the current prophet would take that as a revelation from God because under Mormon doctrine, God will only reveal himself to the current prophet. Does anyone see the problem here?
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This blog I love. I just can't get enough when I read such great human experences. Thank you Jeff and to all that have left a part of you. Where ever you are, you are in the place where you a need to be at your progression back to our Father in Heaven. So many memories and undescrible spiritual experences come flooding in to my mind and heart. With the same Holy Ghost reasuring to me again that the Book of Mormon is as it claims. Before I found the LDS church and the Book of Mormon I had two powerful spiritual experences. One gave me hope from utter dispair and let me know that there was more beyond what we see around us. Although I would like to go into detail most would not understand if I did relate what it is like to have the Holy Ghost visit you for the first time. I was so moved that I was afraid to move and dare not tell anyone for fear I would offend the purposes of God. About a year later when reading a book about the power of Christ I again had a experence from God. It was not of this earth and did not require me to study or pray. But I was so over come with the Spirit I prayed I my heart that if it was true I would do all in my power to do as God would ask of me. About one year later I was taught the lessons and read the Book of Mormon. Had the same powerful Holy Ghost bless me again. One year later I went on a mission. I wish I could report I have lived up to all that I should have because I have had more great and glorious spiritual experences all through my life. I can not give you my experences but if I could I would willing give up my life for all people to know what I know is true. God will give to what you are ready to except and not untill you are ready. I pray for all of you. Thank you Mormons for finding me. I owe you my life here and my soul after this life.
God will give revelations to anyone for their personal use. To a prophet for the church. To a king of Israel for a country. But you must follow what God tell you.
A lot has been said about the study of the gospel, bible or the BofM, ect. inorder to determing if it is true. After looking at my own experiences and the examples in the bible I have concluded that it is 99.99% prayer\comittment and .01% study that will give you the testimony of God or other important matters. There were non-Jewish people that came to the knowledge that Jesus Christ was the son of God, through the spirit and knew little or nothing about the gospel. They just had a little information, hope, faith, desire and a payer in their heart.
I did read the BofM; but it was the Holy Ghost that confirmed to me that the first vision of Joseph Smith was true. This happened with more profound impact than that of the BofM. I also had spiritual experiences about God and Christ without doing any studying before I knew of Mormonism or studying Christianity. I did not know I was to study. All I knew was that I was to belive, have faith, and pray. I also had a desire to commit myself to doing what God would direct me to if He would show me what it was I needed to do. At the time I did not think I would last very long if I had to just obey without some kind of witness. I was not looking for a sign or vision; just some acknowledgement that I was headed in the right direction. With just a little information and a prayer in my heart I was given a testimony of God and His son Jesus Christ. After this I was taught the importance of different ways of studying the gospel and the proper way to pray. I did gain more and more revelations and confirmations from the Holy Ghost as I continued to read and study. We must remember the gospel is for the least among us.
I for one am not very smart and could never come to any conclusion about the facts of God or His teachings. The gospel is for us that have no brains and can just find our way to our knees. It is about prayer, living a righteous life, our relationship to our fellow man and our relationship to our God. Study is important but not necessary to know the truth about God. Learning more about His gospel requires both study and payer.
Why do some people find different answers? My only conclusion is that they are where they should be and they are either living the gospel by faith or doing something else. God will only give us the answers we are ready for; to do other wise could do us more harm than good.
In conclusion; some of the greatest minds have studied the gospel for years and cannot agree on religious matters; so to me when God speaks to a child, a young boy, or to a no nothing, uneducated, person like me through the spirit; this is the only way to trully know if the BofM is true.
Your following blog does sound very Catholic. At one time, like you I saw problems with the Mormon constructs. But as a convert I disagree with the need for the members or the gospel to have Joseph Smith to stand on. Joseph Smith could be a fallen prophet and did fall out of favor with God just as many in the Bible did from time to time. But each time they repented God excepted them back. I am not sure what you mean by the BofM is not self sustaining. So I can not really address that. The BofM doesn't need Joseph Smith to have a untarnished legacy to be true. Jesus was accused of many wrongs and many went away disappointed and were lost; as far as we are told from the Bible. This does not keep the Bible from being true. Jesus Christ was perfect and Joseph Smith was not. Further, I don't understand about the words of the Bible as living and breathing independently from it's authors. I can find many faults with the authors and words of the Bible that could give me many good reasons not to believe in Christ but I don't let the short comings of the book or the authors keep me from asking God about the truth of the gospel. Joseph Smith is important to us in the Church like Moses was important to the children of Israel and Peter to the early Christians and the Pope to the Catholics. They were not perfect nor were their words without fault. But this should not keep anyone from seeking out God to discover the truth from His witness the Holy Ghost. These men are not the Gospel just the imperfect messengers. You do not need to have a reliance on any human to know if any book of scriptures are true. You just need a witness from God or live by faith. All the study in the world will not give you a witness of the Holy Ghost.
God does not need us any more than a parent needs their children. I am not sure where you get the idea the Mormon teachings keep God from always being with us. The simplistic explanation you give of Mormonism will always raise questions but if you want to get in to the deep metaphysical\theological constructs there are many books and blogs that study such matters. Just as I have read many Catholic theologians that dig deep into the complex ideals of the gospel but in the end did not bring me any closer to God. Nor did Mormon metaphysics\theology.
The Mormon concept that God the Father; like Christ became a human man\God in order to fulfill the atonement does not restrict God the Father or Christ from being with us at all times. As a glorified and resurrected beings with the assistance of the Holy Spirit God can be with us at all times if necessary. And if you factor in the book "Finger Print of God" by Hugh Ross, with the concept of infinite universes and the Godly power to travel at or beyond the speed of light to any of these universes by bending space and time then God could by reference of our time be in many places at the same time. Further, God can be with anyone at any time, Mormon or Catholic or Pagan ect., "he stands at the door knocking but are we willing to open it." Also Mormons do not believe that God will leave you if you sin. God does become grieved if we do not repent which He requires all to do to make that effort but He will not force us to seek help out or force Himself upon us.
The visit of Christ to America in the BoM covers the same hope as the Bible and if the message were any different then we would then need to question why. The rest of the BofM reads like the old testament which is not fill with a lot of hope like the new testament. So even the Bible has a problem with hope until Christ arrives and delivers the message of hope Himself. Your arguments are the normal arguments that I have heard others make in the past. The same arguments that are used to break down the BofM can be used against the Bible. All these arguments I reject against both books; rather, I call upon God to give me a witness to what is true then live by faith the best I can.
Your last two paragraphs leave me again questing your understanding of Mormonism. When Christ was on the earth the word of God came through Him, then Peter, then the Pope. An there may be others in the Catholic church that receive revelation but only the Pope speaks for the church. The Mormons have a Prophet, Apostles, Stake Presidents, Bishops, Home teachers, Husbands, Wives, Children that can receive revelations. Did I leave anyone out? Again I could point out perceived weaknesses in the Catholic church and try to pick it apart but how does this get me any closer to God. If the point is to know the truth; studying will only raise the questions but we need to ask God for the true answers. God will give you revelation as to what is true and what truth you need to follow. If God gave you a revelation to be a Catholic then you need to be the best Catholic you can be.
In the end, only living a righteous life and prayer, then waiting for the revelations of the Holy Ghost will bring you closer to Christ.
I'm the catholic who posted on the 26 of February 2007. Just thought I might respond and perhaps clarify a few things. To the author of March 11, 2007, there are a few points I do actually agree with you on. You are absolutely correct, the Catholic Church has a great many faults. The Spanish Inquisition comes to mind when I think of Catholic short comings. That's one the Catholic Church will never live down. But, neither does the Catholic Church seek to cover it up. It happened, its a fact of history, things have changed, hopefully for the better. There are more places the Catholic Church screwed up and fell short, I don't need to, nor could I cite all of them. But, in the grand scheme of things, when one really looks at catholic teachings and doctrine, the catholic faith is closer to what Christ actually taught than any other faith.
The mormon church spends great deal of time defending Joseph Smith. You may not think that, but from an outside observers perspective, a great deal of time is wasted by your church elders, prophet, apostles, and members defending Joseph Smith. Your church will not acknowledge his shortcomings even though they are plastered throughout the pages of history for all to see.
Polygamy is good example. That was a doctrine given to the members from Joseph Smith. See D & C 132. Members of your church deny that, but its there in black and white in your own recognized scriptures. Was that divinely inspired, God sanctioned adultery, or did Joseph Smith just make it up for his own purposes? Who knows, but your church puts out an awful lot of propoganda to deny that Joseph Smith said it. Why? Wouldn't it be better to just acknowledge that Joe translated wrong and move on?
That's actually what I meant when I said the Mormon Church needs Joseph Smith to be this squeaky clean prophet of God. If his image is tarnished in anyway, his credibilty is tarnished too. If his credibilty is tarnished, then that tarnishes everything he wrote...including the translation of the BOM. Your church has to portray him as an upstanding member of society, otherwise, it can't survive scrutiny.
Jesus on the otherhand, through the New Testament, doesn't have to undergo that question. His teachings are free from that form of propoganda. They are self sustaining because Jesus' teachings come directly from God. J Smith's, well that's actually the concern..do they really come from God, or did he make the whole thing up. I believe he made the whole thing up for personal gain, you do not and that's a point we won't agree on.
The problem raised by tarnishing Joseph's reputation though is that if he isn't credible, then the BOM falls apart because now there's question as to whether its properly translated, or what parts are wrong, or whether its a fake altogether. Your church will never admit that parts of it are wrong, or that parts were translated incorrectly, because it can't. That's why I say the BOM is not self sustaining, it needs Joseph Smith to be squeaky clean otherwise every doctrine falls apart.
I don't in anyway think of my church as perfect or having all of the answers. That is a key difference though, because, every Mormon I've ever encountered does think their church has all of the answers. Its a sense of entitlement that permeates your faith. That sense of entitlement comes across as arrogant and prideful. Those are not godly traits.
The Catholic Church does have faults. So does the Mormon Church. Joseph Smith was not the fine virtuous man he is made out to be. Look at history. Look at your own church records on him. Look at the pagan ritual he instilled as the temple endowment ceremony. That endowment ceremony comes directly from the Masonic Rites. God,by and through Christ tells us that he with holds nothing from us, yet, the Mormon Temple Ceremony is filled with secrecy. Why hide something that is supposed to be from God?
I know your response will be that the temple ceremony is too sacred to be revealed to just anyone. Or that I just don't understand, or that I lack the righteouness to be worthy of going to the temple. But, I don't consider myself unworthy of God's love and grace. We're all worthy of that, otherwise, what's the point of faith in God.
That brings me to another point. You questioned how I draw the conclusion that your church teaches that God is not always with us. That really comes down to what each of our respective churches teach about who God is.
In mormon teachings, God is an exhalted man. He was once a man who became eternal...I'm not clear on who he followed to do that, but somehow he was baptized, followed the right path and returned as an exhalted man.
Catholic teachings, and pretty much all the protestant churches teach that God is eternal and always has been. That may seem minor, but it really makes a difference in understanding God because you and I don't actually worship the same God, even though on the surface it appears we do. If God is eternal, and omnipotent, and omnipresent, then all things are truly possible through God. As Catholics we believe God resides in and with all of us. We also believe that he is present in all things. Mormons don't share that belief. From my perspective, thats a sad shortcoming, and adopting and believing in the BOM is actually a step backward in faith, not forward.
God has revealed himself in many ways to many people. You are correct that the pope does speak for the catholic church, the prophet does speak for the Mormon church. Here's where things differ though. Revelation has been given to the saints in the catholic faith that has changed the course of the catholic church.
Papal authorities have recognized teachings given to St. Francis of Assissi...he was told to rebuild my church, so he did. First he built a new building, but that wasn't what God actually meant, so he rebuilt the teachings of the church which is what God actually meant. He wasn't a pope, he was a simple priest who preached to the animals because people wouldn't listen. The catholic church has adopted many of his teachings as doctrine.
St. Bernadette of Lourdes is another example of God giving revelation to someone other than the pope. Mary appeared to Bernadette and gave us the rosary. The catholic church teaches a strong committment to praying the rosary all because of revelation given to a young peasant girl in France.
If any of those things happened to a young woman of the mormon faith, not one member of your church all the way up to the prophet would give her any credience. First because she doesn't have priesthood authority, and second because she isn't the prophet to whom revelation is given. That's a key difference between the Pope and the Prophet. The pope would listen to that young girl, the prophet would not.
You are right that arguing one faith over the other is not going to draw anyone closer to God. What really draws us closer is prayer and patience and faith in God to overcome all obstacles. I personally believe that the name of our church, or the particular scriptures we believe in are, or the prayers we say are not going to be the indicator of our return to our father. He's really only going to ask a few questions. Did you believe in me? Did you believe in my son? Did you do the very best you could to live as my son lived? Are you sorry for those places in your life you fell short? If you can answer yes to those four questions, you really are on the right path reqardless of the name of your church.
When Christ walked this earth he really only gave two commandments to follow, not all this doctrine that every church seems to put forth. First, love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and second, love your neighbour as yourself. If you're working on those two commandments, you are working on drawing closer to God and all the doctrine taught really is only a tool to help you along the way. I wish you well in your spiritual journey.
To my Catholic Friend:
Thank you for your insights into the views and history of the Catholic world. As a reluctant convert to the LDS church I will try to explain why I believe the BofM is true. I went from pagan, to Christian, to LDS because of spirit of the Holy Ghost. I had my first great spiritual experience as I was in great despair about trying to discover if there was any purpose to keep going in life. This experience was so profound when it came to me from outside this normal earthly influence and assured me that God did exist that I hoped and prayed that God would show me more. Some time later when considering the importance of Jesus Christ I again experienced the Holy Spirit of confirmation that I was on the correct path and that He was the Son of God our Father. Sometime later when I was introduce to the story of Joseph Smith's first vision I again had the gift of God's assurance to me that this event along with the BofM was as presented by the LDS church. More times than I can count I have been humbled by this Holy Spirit that has confirmed that the leaders of the LDS church are Heavenly Fathers anointed and appointed spokesman's at this time. Many other LDS doctrine have also been confirmed to me by this humbling spirit of confirmation.
After I joined the LDS church I read just about every thing both positive and negative that has been printed about the church. I also have read about 100 plus books on the Catholic church and about 200 plus books on other religions. Most of these things I can hardly remember as my memory gets older but my spiritual experiences are as if they happened yesterday. The only reason I can think of why God has blessed me so much is I did not look for a church. I just kept the attitude that what ever God wanted me to do I would try to accomplish. I do not consider the LDS church a church but the Kingdom of God on the earth at this time. If I had my way I would not belong to any religion or church and the LDS church and it's members have given me many reasons not to be apart of them; but I can not deny the incredible experiences God has blessed me with. In the end I did not study my way into religion or the LDS church but was lead here by the Holy Spirit.
In the end it does not matter to me if the church is inspired from the top down or if like the Catholic church that gains revelations from members then incorporates these as part of the church. It does not matter to me the imperfections of the history of my church or it's members because thanks to God He has keep me from any prejudices that would keep me from finding the Holy Spirit. I have never made it my concern to tell God how to run any church. If I felt that a church is man made then I would not want to belong to it.
Let the cynics criticize against God, and his Kingdom or it's members, because each time they do the great past spiritual experiences that God has blessed me with comes flooding into my mind and builds my testimony all the stronger. I am grateful He has answered my prayers and if anyone choose not to pray and seek out the truth then they may miss out on what could be the greatest event of their lives.
To My Apparent Mormon Friend,
Your perspective on faith and your church's position is society is unique among mormons. I've not encountered that. What is apparent from your posting is that you have had a very powerful, conversion experience that changed your whole future. I will tell you that in the time I've spent searching and ultimately re-found my faith in catholocism, near 20 years, I've been touched by a great many of the same conversion experiences that re-kindled my catholic faith. That's why it is so dear to me, as I believe your faith is so dear to you. That's also what makes our God an amazing God.
Regardless of what faith we follow, we as humans tend to think in human terms. We put human parameters on things that are truly non-human but really are spiritual. But we percieve those in human terms. God on the otherhand perceives things on the eternal, spiritual level, something possibly within our grasp when we return to him, but certainly not within our grasp as humans. He is amazing because he truly can take a debate of faiths such as ours, or those that have occurred throughout history between protestants and catholics (incidentally, as a catholic, I tend to think of everyone who isn't catholic, jewish, or non-christian as a protestant) and work out the details. That's really why we're supposed to leave the big stuff to God and just follow his direction. I wish you well on your journey.
Perhaps I see Mormonism some what differently because I am a convert and spent a couple years in Utah as well as traveling around the United States getting to know many Mormons and people of other faiths. Also I have had a lot of time to study where many good Mormons are like good Catholics just busy making a living and raising a righteous family. To me I have found out that there is a difference in the gospel and Mormonism. The best I can describe it is when a person comes into Mormonism they also get "The Mormon culture." Also many of the things that you may see as unchangeable in the Mormon church my not be. The Catholic church is 2000 years old and has undergone many changes. The Mormon church is less than 200 years old. During this time; just in my 30 years, it has gone through some very great changes. Each time it does I hear people claim there will be a large falling out but each time the membership just keep on going.
In one of your postings you talked about woman's role in the church. I have noticed some changes in the woman's role in the church during my reading of the Mormon church history. Again I think much of this is more cultural more than gospel. But they will have to work this out. It was only a few years before I joined the LDS church that the leadership in SLC told the members not to move to Utah but stay in the area where they were at and build up the church there. The only information that a member could get came from SLC or a local Mormon book store or anti-Mormon information at the local Christian book store. Then came the internet. With a few clicks of the mouse you can find any positive or negative information on the Mormons. The changes will come but I hope the people get what they want. I prefer a conservative traditional slow changing church with the inspiration derived from the top down.
Your statement below reminded me of a book I read which I think is from a Catholic author; if not my bad, but it is full of the known events of woman's influences in the early church. For me it was a true eye opener. "In Memory of Her" by Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza
"If any of those things happened to a young woman of the Mormon faith, not one member of your church all the way up to the prophet would give her any credence. First because she doesn't have priesthood authority, …."
Some of the events in this book are recorded in the early years of the Mormon church but have faded along with the early Christian church and are taking place today. But just like the many experiences I have had I do not share the details nor are they for directing others or the church. These experiences; as I know women that have had in the Mormon church, are of a personal nature.
Not sure if you have see this book but many Mormons scholars are always studying the early Christian church and some of the LDS scholars get into trouble with the leadership in SLC as they get out ahead on some issues. I also here woman in the church ask when they are going to get the priesthood from time to time and if you read a detailed LDS church history at one time woman gave children blessings and blessings for healings. Not sure what this is all about but many talk of such thing in their personal journals.
Maybe we too might have our own Vatican I and II someday. Just imagine 2000 years from now what the LDS church will look like and the Catholic church will be 4000 years old; what will it be like?
Why I believe in the BofM. When I first heard of the BofM I did not know what to think. I read the book and knew that I was not smart enough to determine if it was a true history or just a fiction book from Joseph Smith or others. The missionaries told me that 20 people at different times had seen the golden plates and some of these people heard a heavenly voice and saw an angel. They also told me of many compelling stories of men, woman, and children seeing many visions, dreams, visitations, and miracles. Coming from a Catholic back ground I knew of the great miracles in the Catholic church and knew that these events could be true. I was told by the missionaries not to take their word for the things they told me but I needed to go and pray about these things to find out if they were true. They told me that God would tell me if these stories were true. I did as they instructed me to do and God did send the Holy Spirit of confirmations to me just as my faith always taught me. The one thing that my Catholic faith did not teach me was to pray to find the truth. I was just told to say the prayers that had been prepared for me. Now I discovered that I can communicate with God my Father in my own voice and He will answer me. I thank my Catholic friends for helping me find the restored church that Martin Luther looked for and that God my Father restored through Joseph Smith. Many in my faith have said many harsh things against my friends the Catholics and other Jewish and Christian faiths but I declare that after this life we shall fall at their feet and bathe their feet with our tears in grrstitude for keeping sacred the words of the Jews untill this last days.
Attention the whole world. Has he question been asked "is the BofM true and who am I to declare with definite absolute assurance that I can know that it is a scriptural history from God. From 1820 till now much time has been spent to prove and disprove the story of J.S.'s first vision and the BofM . The whole world has dismissed or tried to disprove that J.S. did not have a visitation of a angel and translate a gold bible.
Because I am a child of a lesser God and a person of no consequences to the world; I should know the least about important matters of God that only the greatest theological minds can hope to answer.
None of these great minds have been able to prove to me God exists or that scripture is the word of God. Many tell me to study the scriptures, but the scriptures tells me I need faith, prayer, fasting, and pestering God until He answers me. In such important matters I have to use the method God has established to communicate to both Kings and slaves. After many days of prayer I declare to the world that God has restored His gospel and Church to the earth. The Holy Spirit will confirm it to all whom are willing to follow the Savior rather than our own desires.
To the author of March 20, 2007 posting. I've never needed a church or scripture to know that God truly exists. Even in my search to come to terms with my truth about remaining catholic (see february 26, 2007 posting) I've never doubted the existence of God. Look around you. Look at the sky, the birds, the mountains, the miracle of birth. The evidence of God's existence abounds in the very environment we live in. All we have to do is look and listen to understand that. Faith and prayer are necessary to talk to God, but all one must do to know that he exists is open one's eyes, he is all around us.
Incidentially, you are not a child of no significance in this world. We all have a significance in this world, no matter what our role is. We are all important, and we are all loved by God.
I bought some years ago, in part because it was on sale, and in part because it was on the Bible, an Almanac of the Bible. This was written (obvious to any scripture-reading, church-going Latter-day Saint) by someone other than a member of our (LDS) Church.
Someone, probably my oldest son, left it on the floor next to the couch. I picked it up to both protect anyone from tripping over it (especially at night), and from the book being damaged.
I put it by the "throne". I read it Monday morning, on page 320, where it has an almost full-page section on "GIANTS" in the Bible. It mentions Goliath, whom David so faithfully brought down, and Og, and his big brass bed. But at the very first of the section, it spoke of giants called "Nephilim" as mentioned in Genesis 6, I believe it was.
Having read many of Hugh Nibley's books, even though the word was in English (and most ancient scriptures were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek), the 'Nephi' portion of that clan of giants, called 'Nephilim' caught my eye, and interest.
I could find online no definition or source of the name Nephi (though I suppose Mom and/or Dad, Sariah or Lehi had a hand in it).
One wikipedia article listed the two words in the same paragraph. But the link was no better than mine, that is that Nephi could be the singular for Nephilim.
Jesus called for Eloi on the cross. Elohim, as I understand it, is actually a name that signifies a "plurality of gods". Could it be that adding a 'lim' to Nephi makes a "plurality of Nephis"? I'm not sure.
And what might they mean?
Well, in the First book of Nephi, we find references Nephi makes to being BIG.
"I, Nephi, being exceedingly young,
nevertheless being large in stature,..." —1 Nephi 2:16.
The second reference is "like unto it..."—
"And now I, Nephi, being a man large in stature,..." —1 Nephi 4:31
Maybe Nephi was a big baby too. Perhaps "Nephi" means something like "big one". If so, and if Nephilim is the plural of Nephi, then Nephilim might then mean "BIG ONES".
My son, Ethan, told me that current studies on Nephilim identify them as being evil. The possible link there I find is that the Nephi ended up as a people as being extremely wicked (kidnapping, raping, torturing to death, and then cannibalizing) which is what Nephite men did to Lamanite women is about as bad as one can get!
Hence, the name, if derived at all from Nephilim could (eventually) have a possible prophetic quality (though many think of the Nephites as being the "good guys" through the bulk of the Book of Mormon historical recounting.
What do you think?
—DMP
A slight addition/correction to the above comment.
From what I've read on "Elohim," it is the plural form of "God," (or rather, "mighty one") since the ending of "im" makes it plural. Yet this is plural in the sense of the "plurality of majesty." In other words, it shows that God is so great that He can refer to Himself as "we" or "us" or that people refer to Him as "they." (e.g. Genesis 1:26, "God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . .") Not that there is more than one God or something.
This plurality of majesty has been used by people like Queen Victoria, when, after seeing her portrait, said, "We are not amused." Of course, there are not multiple Queen Victorias, rather, she is apparently so awesome that she needs a plural noun to express all her awesomeness.
The above on plurality of majesty, however, is just one thought on why Elohim is used.
A great link that I recently found explaining "Elohim" in a--to me--more culturally- and linguistically-aware matter is
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~zadok1/elohim2.html).
I think it explains things much better than I can/have.
Jeff, you are one awesome dude! I love your website and your blog. You have championed the restored gospel and the Book of Mormon like few others I know. Good for you.
Thanks for enlightening my mind and many others, LDS and otherwise. I wish I could meet you in person and shake your hand!
I have been LDS since the age of 8. One thing that has always bugged me and I cannot figure out is; why do people fear, hate, ridicule, our church so much while claiming to be doing it to helping us. Aren't there other churches out there different from their's with different beliefs. I have a theory......
I stumbled across this website and blog a few days ago, and found it to be a great endeavor by a faithful member of the church as I am and I particularly enjoyed the "BofM evidences" page. I am a lifelong member of the church (father joined when I was two) and have a very strong testimony, and have never doubted the doctrines and teachings of the church. I find it very disturbing that there are those who have fell away "apostosized" and feel like they need to "help others" do the same.
I have a few theories as to why some fall away....
First, there are those, like myself and many others (faithful or unfaithful) in the church that sometimes feel that they are never worthy enough to "measure up" to the seemingly "perfect" members...and just give up. Yes, there are members in our wards and some that hold high positions in the priesthood that become "prideful" and look down on others, judging them or making others feel "low"...I tell you, this is not a reflection of the Lord's church and quite frankly, our Saviour would look down on those who use their positions in the church for unrighteous domination of others. I am sure there were bishops that have even done this as well. And have observed certain ward members that display an arrogance toward others as well. Does this change my testimony or faith? Absolutely not, as we are not perfect and we should pray for those that offend us, not lower ourselves to their level and go so far as to say "see? What kind of religion would allow this?" etc. Out of the very few individuals that displayed the poor behavior that I described...there have been many more wonderful people that have inspired me...those people that can "fill a room with the spirit"...and they come from all walks of life, a lawyer, a mechanic, restaurant manager etc..
I truly believe the BofM to be the word of God and the Bible to be the word of God as long as it is translated correctly. I am not one who has a blind faith by any means, and in fact, the sunday school teachers, priesthood leaders and my own parents have all reiterated what the missionaries have told us about finding out if something is true..."praying with a SINCERE heart, and a contrite spirit" that the truth will be revealed to us..and yes, there is only one truth, but that is not an "arrogent" statement, nor would I try to force it on anyone...what people need to realize, is this...let's say you went to a restaurant and had the best tasting lasagna dinner you have ever had...and knew it was the only one that would taste this good, and what if you knew it also gave you eternal happiness...wouldn't you want to share that with everyone? And would share it with such a zeal that might put off some people.
We are seeing now that some of the things mentioned in the BofM regarding the history of the ancient people and the things they did and built...are now coming to light (see "evidences of BofM).
I feel that it is critical that we build a strong testimony first along with having faith, by living the Gospel and praying often, loving our spouses and doing all that the Lord has commanded us...I know that might sound "cliche" to some, but believe me, I found out the hard way if we don't..only misery results, and we lose our way, of course we will falter from time to time...but without that testimony as a foundation, especially during hard trials life may throw at us, we will be susceptible to the enticings of Satan, who's waiting in the wings to keep us from returning to our Saviour and has many tools at his discretion. And heaven forbid that you DO have that strong foundation to begin with, wearing your garments, keeping the covenants etc, Satan works even HARDER on them, always looking for a weak spot (like the ever present computer viruses looking for the hole in our "firewall")...
I want to say to those individuals who felt that didn't "measure" up...that it is not too late, I know how it feels and want to extend my hand to you to tell you that Jesus loves you and wants us to return to his presence, I have no ill will toward those who apostasized...my brother is one of those who has, but his was a result of his lifestyle choices, drugs, alcohol, and multiple female sex partners...and I will tell you, there is nothing you can't overcome, but because my brother lived that kind of lifestyle, he is now an "agnostic", his way of rationalizing the way he lived...but it is not too late. I am not perfect nor will I profess to be, I got a better understanding of our Heavenly Father's love for us after my wife and I had two children of my own...I love them unconditionally and the Lord loves us the same.
I realize that there are many who are not as "receptive" to the Spirit as I am, although it took many years of soul searching to find the truth, and I know where it is, I say to those who struggle, keep praying, and live according to His commandments with the right intent, and you will find it, this I testify to you.
As mentioned before, I am not a "blind follower" and have studied (when I have adequate time lol)...besides having a testimony, I also delight in the recent archeological findings that show evidence that the BofM is not a fabrication, and while Joseph Smith was not perfect like the saviour, (more like Moses), a man with the same shortcomings that we all have, and was admonished by the Lord when he had difficulty (his strong personality), I truly believe that he was a Prophet of God...I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy the trials he went through, the intense persecution that he and his family and the early saints endured. He saw the higher purpose and the importance of what he had to do, and sealed his testimony with his own blood.
I do not judge others for their beliefs, and I try to have a Christlike love for others, and wish nothing but peace and happiness to all. Keep up the good work Brother Linsday! The world needs more like you to proclaim the gospel, and you have chosen a great medium for doing so, God Bless! -Rich
The Book of Mormon is true!
Why is it that everyone (mainly non-LDS)want "proof " that the BOM is true? By "proof" I mean physical scientific evidence. Yet these same people have no problem believing the Bible without "proof". They say that such things as the first vision , the angel Moroni visitations, the BOM translation among other things are just too crazy to believe. How about Christ walking on the water, healing lepers, Moses parting the Red Sea, Christ bringing Lazarus back to life, etc. These event can be hard to believe without f