Discussions of Mormons and Mormon life, Book of Mormon issues and evidences, and other Latter-day Saint (LDS) topics.

Saturday, December 15, 2007

"How Can Anyone Be So Stupid?"

I get a lot of emails from strangers that begin with friendly greetings like, "How can anyone be so stupid as to believe in Mormonism?" These cheerful notes then go on to share important information about the errors of modern Church leaders ("the Church is building a mall!"), past Church leaders ("Joseph Smith was a womanizer"), objectionable doctrines ("you believe that Adam is God"), disasters of Church history (the Kirtland bank disaster and Mountain Meadows are favorites here), and other present or past problems in the Church ("you're a bunch of racists!"). And then we wrap up with a gentle reminder about how utterly stupid I must be. After all, how can anyone look at this litany of problems and possibly remain LDS? (Sometimes the writer states that they were once LDS and have now left -- the email from alleged ex-Mormons tends to be the nastiest.) It is beyond reason and a sign of monstrous idiocy that any human being could belong to such a Church. Sometimes these helpful souls are broadminded enough to recognize that there may be alternate explanations for my religious faith. Maybe it's not just stupidity - perhaps I am so ignorant and blind that I've never heard the facts they have shared, or else I'm a vile hypocrite knowingly leading souls astray. But utter stupidity is generally the normal assumption.

At that point, there is often a call to wake up, repent, and follow the only logical path, the only path that sane, non-stupid human beings could possibly accept, which happens to be the path chosen by the kind exhorter who has chosen to wake me from my delusion. That path varies, ranging from atheism, agnosticism, Protestantism, Catholicism, Amwayism, etc. (Notably, I don't think I've ever had this kind of treatment from Jews, who I have found to be among the most non-critical and accepting people on the planet.)

The attitudes of these correspondents represent classical anti-Mormonism. It is one thing to disagree with us, but to insult and revile, assuming that no intelligent person could possibly accept another belief system, displays true bigotry. This kind of bigotry is the fuel behind hate and many associated evils. But the outreach effort to shake me from my stupidity is, of course, always conducted in "love." It's not the gushing, sentimental kind of love that we see expressed between, say, hockey players of opposing teams during an intense match, or by fans of opposing World Cup soccer teams after a few beers and an ugly match, but a tougher love, sort of a bittersweet love but without the sweet, perhaps even a Ramboesque love, a love that requires body armor to appreciate.

A person lacks the refining benefits of basic education, in my opinion, if he or she cannot recognize that good and intelligent people can hold a wide variety of opinions and beliefs that may be sharply discordant with one's own views. Those other beliefs may seem illogical and absurd from our perspective, and we may be convinced that they are wrong, yet there is a need to recognize that those other beliefs may be intellectually or spiritually satisfying to their adherents, and may have value and richness that we do not appreciate. A Muslim believer may find Christianity to be hopelessly polytheistic with its belief in three gods - in spite of the seemingly desperate word-smithing attempts to define the three persons as one one Being or one Godhead, yet many Muslim believers I know kindly accept that Christians find great value, comfort, and even beauty in our beliefs, and recognize that one can be intelligent, educated, and Christian at the same time. (Of course, if we'd learn a little Arabic and dig into the majesty of the Koran, maybe we'd become even more intelligent. . . .)

Our critics seem to think that a serious apparent mistake from a Church leader should convince me to abandon my faith. My appreciation of LDS teachings and practices is not based on the assumption that every act and statement of Church leaders has been infallibly guided by God. If Joseph Smith made huge mistakes, if a Stake President made huge mistakes, if modern General Authorities make poor decisions on some matters, if hundreds of Mormons have had various personal problems, and if some popular LDS doctrines today turn out to be incomplete and in need of future correction, one does not have to be a moron to remain LDS. My faith is not based on the absurd notion that Church leaders are infallible or even that they are nearly always right. It is not based on an error-free Book of Mormon, or on the selection of construction projects that I agree with. I'm not a Mormon because I think we have perfect leaders or even mostly right leaders. My religious faith does not depend on whether I like polygamy or think Joseph Smith implemented it in the right way. It does not depend on what went wrong and who was to blame for the Kirtland Bank failure or the other problems the Church has faced.

My testimony is based on the divinity of Jesus Christ as expressed in the Bible and in the powerful, Christ-centered, divine record we have in the Book of Mormon. Having found for myself that the Book of Mormon is true, and since that first discovery, having repeatedly found it to be majestic scripture beyond anything that a man could have fabricated - especially Joseph Smith in 1830, then I must conclude that there is something divine that happened with Joseph Smith. Indeed, in addition to my experiences with the Book of Mormon, my experiences with the fruits of the Restoration - the priesthood, the Temple, the teachings of the Church and the blessings and joy of the living the Restored Gospel - further convince me there is a divine source of these things, pointing to the reality of the Restoration. And on top of all that, there is a remarkable intellectual and spiritual satisfaction that comes from the theology and doctrines of the Church. Understanding the justice of God (the whole issue of theodicy), especially as expressed through the work of preaching of the Gospel to the dead and making the blessings of the Gospel available to all the world from all generations who are willing to accept it, is remarkably beautiful intellectually. Understanding the nature of God and Jesus Christ as taught in the Restored Gospel resolves centuries of miasma and brings clarity and beauty to our view. Understanding the nature of mankind and the free agency that we have, all intricately tied to knowledge of our premortal existence as spirit children of our Heavenly Father, helps resolve some of the most troubling and confused issues of modern Christianity (see When Souls Had Wings: What the Western Tradition Has to teach Us About Pre-Existence by Terryl Givens). And then there is the intellectual satisfaction of seeing that the LDS doctrines that other Christians use to condemn us as somehow being "non-Christian" actually are much more at home in the earliest days of Christianity than in the modern era, providing intellectual satisfaction about the reality of this remarkable process we are in, the process of Restoration of ancient truth. That process is not over and we still have a lot to learn, including from other religions and from science and other sources, for we do not have all truth and certainly do not have a monopoly on what truth there is on this diverse planet. In fact, we understand that that there was much truth anciently that has been handed down, sometimes distorted and corrupted, sometimes preserved, and knowing this, we can look upon other religious viewpoints not with the attitude of "How can anyone be so stupid?" but perhaps even with the attitude of "How can we be less stupid by learning from you?"

There is so much of value in the beliefs of others. We may disagree with much, but we can recognize that they, too, find value and beauty in what they have, and that if take of our own blinders, we may find gems of wisdom that can help us grow as well.

That's just my opinion, of course. But I can't see how anyone could be so stupid as to disagree with it.

46 comments:

brenda said...

Thank you. I have enjoyed and benefited much from your writings and have refered others to them. Thanks again.

SteSmo said...

Common Jeff, you brainwashed Mormon cultist! You are dummb! No doubt you bought your PhD from a diploma mill (like our good, pious friend Walter Martin)! ;-)

I don't think that I need to explain that I was being sarcastic. But seriously, has anyone else noticed that many times fundamentalist Christians who believe in a 6,000 year old earth, who believe in a global flood, who believe dinosaurs walked the earth with humans, and in some cases do not believe in gravity, etc. often accuse Mormonism as not being 'scientific'? I can remember Charles Larson, author of the sensationally popular (and equally sensationally shoddy) anti-Mormon book "By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus" admonish Mormons to ditch the 'unscientific' nature of Mormonism and become (much to the dismay of Stephen Thompson) fundamentalist Christians (the same that prescribe to the above stated ideologies.) There was a chapter at the end of his book that said as much. It really was quite a hoot!

Also, I appreciate what you have written Jeff, and am lovin' the blog. Keep up the good work.

Steve Smoot

p.s. I hope you enjoyed Russia. My family and I lived their back in early 1990-1991 (for my Dad's job). I was just a little baby at the time, so I do not remember much, but I have traveled back their with my dad since then. Russia is a cool place (no pun intended) isn't it?

Horebite said...

Great post. I agree 100%. It's interesting how Mormons are criticized from many different angles--from the evangelical to the atheist. Here's a question, then, that I would ask someone bashing our church:

"If we are so wrong, which, then, is the right way?"

Of course I'm sure they would have some answer, varying from "just accept Christ as your personal savior and you are saved" to "forget religion and God--it's the opium of the masses." But the point is: clearly even those that oppose us have not come to a consensus on what the right way is. If we are so clearly wrong and the right way is so reasonable and logical, then why is there so much disagreement on what the right way is? Until the anti-Mormons use all of their great intelligence to determine amongst themselves what the right way is, leave our way alone.

Anonymous said...

Join the only true way: Amway!

Erelis said...

Between the flap over Mike Huckabee's comments to the NY Times and the flap over Larry O'Donnell's comments on the McLaughlin Group, it's been a particularly negative week to be a Mormon - we haven't made it as far in social acceptance as I had thought. Thanks for keeping perspective and helping me to keep my chin up.

PS - Terryl Givens is actually writing a book entitled "When Souls Had Wings" -- thanks for linking to this preview.

Bookslinger said...

I can only hope that the virulent anti-mormons also share their viewpoints with all other religions, not just ours.

To be consistent, they should also tell the radical fundamental Islamists what they think of them, too.

Halibut said...
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Halibut said...

Yes Jeff, there is a Santa Claus. dogma, creed etc. should not be confused with Church leaders whose major goal seems to be complicating and ruining your life.

Have you studied the Athanasian Creed (Quicumque vult)? I was in a church that recited it last week. I found it a very interesting explanation of the Trinity.

Mormanity said...

Yes, I'm familiar with it and have written about it on some other pages. It's not used much today, I understand (Lutherans may be the main users, I think, with some infrequent usage in Roman Catholicism), though I think most Protestants agree with it. (Eastern Orthodox, on the other hand, may object to the filoque clause - the idea that the Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the son instead of just from the Father).

It's a nice statement of the modern Trinity concept, I agree. But I don't believe it describes what New Testament Christians believed. Or what Christ taught. As one quick example, consider this clause: "And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other." How do you square that with Christ's very plain statement: "My father is greater than I" (John 14:28)?

To me, it's a case of Neoplatonism changing the teachings of Christianity to better conform to the expectations of the philosophers and their followers. And one more reason why I'm glad to have the pure and simple teachings of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

Hey, MormonCult.org is now the #1 Google hit for searches of "Mormon cult." Scary.

RegularPerson18 said...

Hahaha great post as always. Your posts have really made a huge impact on me: an 18 year old investegator who's parents aren't 'the most keen' on having their son 'go Mormon on them'. Hopefully they'll come around, but really you have no idea how much I appreciate all the research you've done and the issues you have talked about; all of it (among many other things, biggest of which - prayer) has helped me to come to the conclusion that this is the true Church of Jesus Christ, and I can't wait to become a part of it.
Also, it hurts to see how all the anti-Mormon attacks need to be so aggressive (and many times so trivial); but I guess when you are trying to bash the LDS Church you grab onto whatever small straws you can... quite sad really...

Halibut said...

You bet Jeff----very simple teachings in our church.
I heard a great sermon the other day at a lutheran church.

The funeral sermon was about the verse of Joy to the World that reads "No more let sin, and sorrow rule." A beautiful line. We have sin and we have sorrow----but we need not let it rule because we have the gospel.

And while we have sorrow the minister assured us that we would be united with loved ones after we die. In other words---eternal families.

Tankerific said...

I'm glad ministers are comforting people with the idea of "being together" after this life. But what they teach definitely is NOT "eternal families." Don't mistake their words of comfort with the grandeur of eternal families and eternal marriage. For other mainstream Christian churches, marriage is dissolved at death. Gender becomes essentially irrelevant if present at all. Families are not sealed and bonded together. Everyone in heaven will "be together" much like everyone attending the Superbowl is "together" in the same stadium - all the billions of essentially neutered beings without the benefit of enduring marriage and enduring covenantal ties. They can sit next to each other and hang out and rejoice together, I suppose, but they won't be eternal families in the deep and meaningful sense we have in the Restored Gospel, with enduring ties between a man and a woman and family units sealed together in a great chain of families.

SteSmo said...

Don't be fooled by those Christian cultists. When they speak of 'eternal families', they are not speaking of the same eternal familes of the Doctrine & Covenants. They have a different eternal family. ;-)

Steve Smoot

ZonederTwang said...

Steve, you've nailed it! Nice comment.

erelis said...

Hang in there, regularperson18, and remember the conversation we had at Thanksgiving when you were at my parents' place. Your time will come! :)

RegularPerson18 said...

I always do Erelis. Say hey to KT/TT for me. And good call...

Darion Alexander said...

You are all hypocrites and bigots! You who know nothing cannot understand nothing. Joseph Smith was perfect in every way and so is Gordon B Hinckley. How can you NOT believe it? The Book of Mormon doesn't have any errors in it, after all, Joseph said that it "was the most perfect book"...didn't he? Huh? Huh? And BTW SteSmo...I like dinosaurs...:)

cold pizza said...

I liked dinosaurs, too. Tasted like chicken, only bigger. -cp

DougForbes said...

OK my LDS brethren, I am going to say something you may find stupid. Reports of anti-Mormonism have been greatly exagerated. Consider ther facts.

1. Only 7% of people say they would use their vote to prevent Mitt Romney from becoming president compared to 11% for Obama, 17% for Guliani and 40% for Hillary.

2. 5% of the senate is Mormon while Mormons only comprise 2% of the population.

3. 60% of Mormon senators come from non-Mormon majority states; that is, not Utah.

4. No derogatory slang words or expressions exist for Mormon while there are half a dozen for Jews and 2 or 3 dozen for blacks.

5. No derogatory slang words exist for polygamy while there are 77 for gays.

6. Violence against Mormons in Utah was on a par with anti-abolitionist violence in Kansas about a decade later and it had a lot to do with the linkage between Mormonism and the movement to abolish slavery that existed in the popular mind and reality at the time.

Doug Forbes said...

In item 6, that was supposed to be Missouri, not Utah.

Ryan said...

Wow. I got burned out from the discussions on the Fall and Grace a while back, and this is the first time I've read Mormanity since (been busy).

What do I find, in a completely unrelated post? An essay that fills in (or at least articulates well) the very missing piece that turns the Fall and Grace discussion into an endless cycle:

matters of essential human identity and human nature, human kind's role in and responsibility for sin, God's justice, the meaning and scope of grace--all these and more are contingent on the way the soul is conceived to originate.

Thanks for the link!

Frosome said...

Hello old boy,

Tom here, British, 18, atheist bordering agnostic.

Although I think your wasting your time believing such twoddle I would like to congratulate you on your amusing blog. Hell, I felt like joining the LDS just so I could associate myself with you. I know you're not going to get all offended by what i've got to say because I suspect you've heard it all before and you appear to have a good sense of humour.

Religion is a farce, not yours specifically but all of them from Catholicism toooo...Rastafarianism. You chaps seem to spend all of your time trying to pick out holes in rational science but have no problem whatsoever dedicating your lives to the writings of some copper aged blokes sitting around in a tent. Or in your case specifically, Joseph Smith.

Stesmo here appears to mock fundamental Christians for believing in Noah's flood. Stesmo you n00b! OF COURSE that flood happened, "The Bible said so"...anyway that's nowhere near as ridiculous as God inventing black people as curse. Heavens no. The Book of Mormon said so.

Essentially all religions are based on a dusty old book...TBOM, the Qu'ran, Bible, Torah scrolls etc etc etc...this is the most illogical thing EVEER; and i'd expect a man such as yourself to understand logic. It prevails you see, always. Sadly the titans that are Logic and modern God don't get on. If they were to get into a mudwresting match it'd be the metaphorical equivalent of a big logical Goliath fighting David...this time there'd be no pebbles to hand.

I hold no hope that this will sway your beliefs; if there's an afterlife i'll see you there.

If i'm wrong and you're right, please put in a good word for me...although I understand that I won't need it. Aah well, every little helps.

and if i'm right...well no words will be at all necessary. Hopefully we won't even be concious, everlasting life seems very depressing.

and if we're BOTH wrong and God's an elephant, i'll kick sand in his face whilst you kick him in the shins and then we'll run like hell.

Peace
x

Willo said...

Thank you so much for your blog. It is ridiculous that many Evangelicals and Atheists point and laugh at your religion. Not only is it wrong but also hypocritical when there is so much askew in the bible and many theories anyway. But alas, I am a person who questions just about EVERYTHING in my life including my own religion (Lutheranism) resulting in my own line of thinking. I know that faith should not need evidence but I find the Mormon religion quite an elaborate, fictional book. Without any archaeological evidence to prove anything and the thousands of mistranslations in the original and current book of Morman, I will never be convinced.

But one thing I do know is that the Mormon religion has all the basic wisdom and principles which help everyone through their lives. Isn't this, rather than petty times and places, more important than anything else? This is why I congratulate anyone of any religion who is doing the right thing. Thank you it was an intriguing blog :)

CyberChestnut said...

I don't think you're stupid. I just think you believe stupid things. I probably believe some stupid things as well. The fun part is figuring out which ones. Intelligent people are prone to believing incredibly stupid things just like anyone else. Its not really our faults. Our neocortices are ducked-taped and wired on top of our primitive reptile brains. It gets the job done but has some interesting quirks and it definitely doesn't always lead us done the path of rationality. I know the consequences of eating too many reeses pieces but I just can't seem to resist the dynamic duo of chocolaty goodness and delectable peanut butter. That there is such a conflict between what I know I should eat and what I want to eat tells you that there is something not quite right in our brain architectures. If there really is an intelligent designer I think he could have done a hell of a lot better job. I know I could use an improved memory system. I work with computers all day and frankly they got us beat by a long shot as far as memory goes. If they ever become conscious I think we are in for a world of hurt.

Anonymous said...

Aw, yes, Nephi came here 2,500 years ago with his family, before anyone had traveled between continents, before anything beyond small wooden fishing boats were invented. Then, the Nephites built great cities and tools and temples (of which there is no archeological evidence, of course). But they were killed off by the evil Laminites (Native Americans). But wait: Take heart: Everything was written down on golden plates. And then it was translated by Joseph Smith into King James Bible English in 1830. And the Book of Isaiah is included copied as if from the King James Bible itself, even though the years it was supposedly intuited by Nephi was decades or more before the actual book of Isaiah was written. Gawd.

Geoff said...

Thanks for your kind words about us Jews - now, if only your church would stop posthumously "baptizing" my people...it's pretty insulting.

Nolan G. said...

I don't believe the Book of Mormon is true. I'm only going to give one example because it's less a waste of my time and you won't listen to all my reasons anyway. You say in the Book of Mormon that the Lamanite Tribe from Israel are the ancestors of the Native Americans. This is not true at all because a Mormon did a DNA test on these Native Americans and found that they were more likely to come from Eastern Asia rather than Israel. Needless to say, the guy that was trying to prove the Book right while doing this study, was excommunicated from the church.

Max said...

"Having found for myself that THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE, and since that first discovery, having repeatedly found it to be majestic scripture BEYOND ANYTHING THAT A MAN COULD HAVE FABRICATED - especially Joseph Smith in 1830, then I must conclude that THERE IS SOMETHING DIVINE that happened with Joseph Smith."

You can't just say these things, you have to qualify them. I can post "I have empirically proven that Mormonism is rubbish" on a website but that doesn't it true (though I suspect it is the case).

What exactly in this document is "beyond mortal ability"? Have you never read Shakespeare/Tolkien/Salman Rushdie/Rohinton Mistry?? I think you will find their writings far more enlightened and enlightening. But in the meantime I would DEARLY love to hear you explain WHY a mortal man could not possibly have written this.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

You know, I'm usually always an equalist. But after I learned about mormons, I feel a small bit rude for hating the racist, polygamist, sexist little blokes.
Mormons are the only-and I mean the ONLY (even Satanists are okay with me, for the god's sakes) people that I am in any way against. Mostly because you all hate me. But, eh, it's not my problem that you're all dead-set against every other person who isn't a white mormon male. I apologize for being a strong female, I must be doing a terrible, terrible thing, no?
I've always wondered why exactly you hate homosexuals and every other religion other than mormon/gender other than male/race other than white. And I've come to the solid conclusion that you're afraid of them. You're scared of them because they're different. Poor wittle mormons, trying to act tough while you sit in the corner sucking on your thumb.
Oh, no offense, of course.

-The strong female who belives in more than one god-oh no! and has dozens of homosexual and bisexual friends

JimMissy said...

Sad to see this False Church with its False teaching's come into my home-town. How do I know it's false? Look at the lying Joseph Smith in Jail and someone smuggled a gun to him and he shot it at people to preserve his life. The tour at Carthage Illinois Jail doesn't bring this up. They rather play with words that make him look like a martyr. This false Church spends a lot of money to cover up the hate Joseph Smith had for Mankind. He is not a Martyr, a Martyr goes willingly.
Here is truth, will you all fight against this truth and work hard to cover up just like your leader did to others and many others after him? Why do you all do continue with this cover up stuff? Why? Can you really believe that you'll be in Heaven after working so hard and long to cover up truth and exalting a False Prophet?

Anonymous said...

You want to know who is a false prophet the mormon prophet thats who. And I agree mormonism is stupid. I mean two gays riding bikes, dont date until your 16, no coffee its all nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Interesting, but i have no real interest. If you grew up differently then what would you be. . . You could say your proud to be what have become, but are you? Do you look at life in a different perspective, ever?

JimMissy said...

Jeff Lindsay,

I'm not here to call anyone names. You have been told the truth and just like the Pharisee's you don't like it. Jesus called them White Washed Sepulchres and just like you will not listen.
I ask a Mormon, how do you know that you are saved? to which he said, because I follow the ordinances of the Mormon Church. I told him that he was not saved. Interesting how in God's Word Salvation is a free gift to all who repent and accept but this youngster was too busy adding works to be accepted by the Mormon Church more than accepting what God gave. I can see why folks call this not too smart. All I thought from that time on is "Many shall come to me that day and say Lord Lord, Look what all I done and Jesus will say, Go away I never knew you.
I have heard some Mormon's say the Bible has errors and blame the K.J. Translators. I looked and find one mistake. In 1st Cor. 13 there is a word found there that does not belong and that word is "EASILY" Now as I look in Moroni 7:45 here this same word easily appear again. A great blunder and proof Smith copied good parts of the Bible to look good.
Yet like many others before you, you will also probably work hard to find some way to honor this BOM blunder as divine truth and continue to place doubt on the Living Word. To blame God for this blunder is not wise. This is blasphemy.
Will you still parade around like the pharisee's did to look so suffering that can be seen from those who call you names. I don't really care what you done. It's what Jesus done that counts. You done enough. JimMissy

Anonymous said...

Mormonism is a simple trick of Psychology. A Mormon believes they are correct and mormonism is true because they feel it in their heart. The Bible says "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). So... that's false thinking. But the way they think they believe it is even more insane. They say " you have to really want it to be true, and then you will feel it, that it is true. DUH! If you really want something to be true, your mind will decieve you into believing it's true. This is obvious. It happens with anything. I felt insulted when Mormons tried to trick me like that. Do they think I'm retarded?

Jeff Lindsay said...

Anon just said, "They say 'you have to really want it to be true, and then you will feel it, that it is true.' Huh? Who says that? Not me, ever. Not any LDS person I've ever heard. That's patently silly. So I'm really curious--are you sure you heard that, or is that how you've deconstructed the often repeated suggestion to STUDY, READ, PONDER, and pray? Real testimony involves a lot of mental effort--heart AND MIND are involved (see D&C 8:2-3, D&C 9:7, 1 Cor. 2).

JimMissy said...

Retarded? No way Anonymous. You have Common Sense and backbone which Mormon's traded off and settled for a Wishbone which that's not very smart.
Elders tell people to pray with a sincere heart then we'll have a burning in our bosom that the BOM is true. If I prayed or wished to see if I should be a witch I would also get a burning in my bosom that its true.
So don't let this Jeff fool you that feelings isn't used to know the BOM is true because they sure do and also taught to do this.

JimMissy said...

So Jeff why do you go and work to change the truth that Anonymous said?
Why is Mormonism so full of changing? Changing Christian words meanings then call themselves Christians? This sounds like Mormons like sheeps clothing but different meanings are full of Death. A Christian believes all the Bible. A Mormon does not. Satan wars to change who God is, change who Jesus is and working hard to change who a Christian is. Satan one time said, "surely hath God said," trying to change God into a liar. This is not restoration from God but Death to God, Death to Jesus, Death to Christianity while Mormon's wait to be exalted to their positions. Jesus is the only Way to Heaven. As you see you are on another road that looks good but not good.

Satan teaches that man can be like God and Mormonism believes it and they reject what God says that there is no other god and now Mormons hate Christianity for accepting what God say's over Satan. It's sad how much Satan and Mormons hates Christianity. Christians are Monotheist and thats what makes a Christian. Mormon's are not Christian because they deny the Christian doctrine. Mormon's are Polytheist which possible changed this into Henotheist which is not Christian Doctrine and again not Christian. Mormon's wouldn't like it if I called myself a Mormon and denied their doctrine. I am a Christian while Mormon's can only pretend calling themselves Christians because with Mormon belief they'll be a god is proof their not.
Jeff you can delete this message and pretend you have deleted the Bibical Jesus for your Mormon Jesus but impossible. It is your choice. You can't hold me responsible because I told you the truth.

Anonymous said...

So...You do or don't believe that Jesus visited the Americas?

Don't try to chastise people for developing an informed impression of your intelligence, because they're probably more accurate than you are. Anyone who believes they know the truth of our existence is most likely giving themselves too much credit in the brainpower department, anyway.

Anonymous said...

How can you possibly believe the book of Mormon is divinely inspired when it makes claims like, native Americans are of Hebrew decent, or native Americans rode horses and used metal weapons before Europeans arrived, or the Egyptian book of the dead is actually the book of Abraham? The only logical explanation is that yes, all Mormons are either 1) stupid or 2) liars.

Anonymous said...

Hello there! First I would like to state that my intent is in NO WAY to make you feel "stupid" for what you believe. We have ALL been given the ability to choose!
I would like to state though, that I cannot understand how mormons can believe that the earth is only 6000 years old??? This is the one thing (aside from just having faith that Joseph Smith wasn't acting in his own interests) that I just cannot wrap my head around! We know, through science, that the earth is closer to 4.5 BILLION years old (give or take).
I am Catholic (not a great one admittedly), so I have no interest in converting or being converted, but I would really appreciate if, instead of dismissing my questions as that of a "mormon hater", someone would take the time to respond with a short answer (that isn't completely ludicrous).
Really, I would just like to know if in order to become a mormon, you have to completely dismiss science as fact?
Awaiting your enlightenment!

Jeff Lindsay: said...

6000 years old? I don't believe that. It's not official LDS doctrine. Mormon doctrine is open to a very old earth.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. I appreciate your response. I know very few momons, so when I heard this, I assumed (which isn't good, I know) that all mormoms believed that way.

Anonymous said...

There is scientific evidence proving the Mormon religion wrong. Anyone that has done research and read the Bible or Book Of Mormon knows that this is all just a load of bullshit. @Horebite's question: "If we are so wrong, which, then, is the right way?" If there was a god, don't you think he would want us to use our brains and see this as a load of b.s? There is no way. So many innocent people have been murdered and tortured because of religion. If you truly need to pray to a "god" then you can be an agnostic, though it might be a waste of time. If there is a god, then he is a cruel, heartless, stupid bastard for what the hell has happened under his rule.
I hope you (Jeff) read this and are motivated to read the bible and do the research.

p.s. For anyone that tells me to burn in Hell: Hell is actually cooler than Heaven according to the Bible.