Discussions of Mormons and Mormon life, Book of Mormon issues and evidences, and other Latter-day Saint (LDS) topics.

Friday, April 25, 2008

God Bless America

"God bless America!" What wonderful words to hear from the Pope, who appears to hold our nation and its foundational values in respect. A welcome contrast to the troubling words of another far-too influential minister, who instead invoked the curse "God da** America." We live in an era filled with what the prophetic Book of Mormon calls "dissenters" who despise our nation and individual liberty, and often have sympathy for our enemies.

May we as a nation turn our hearts to God and ask His blessing, that this nation may stand as a beacon of liberty and hope to the world, and that we may each turn and better follow His ways.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the two previous posts.

Curtis said...

We have only the enemies that our government claims to be our enemies and wants us to be afraid of so that our secret combinations can continue to prosper with our consent.
As far as God blessing America goes, the Lord has stated what he thinks of America at this time in 3 Nephi 16:10 where he says: "And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
Moroni also tells us that our state is pretty precarious right now as we allow these secret combinations to overrun our government in Ether 8:23 where he says, "Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be."

Anonymous said...

3 Nephi 16:10

Where are we with these things? Can we really tell or are we over stating how bad things are. In the day this was written did they not have human scrifice, caniblism, glory in war and try to exterminate a select group of people?



Or is it for our time murderous combinations and secret abominations? Is our goverment really these secret combinations? I am not a big fan of our goverment and I think our country is a lot further down the moral scale than we should be, but are we at the state 3Nephi is describing?
My biggest concern is that the people of the United States for the most part has rejected the restored gospel and as proof of this most church members are outside this country. The church grows mostly out side the United States. Not that it is a bad thing but in relation to the people of this country rejecting this fulness of the gospel restored. Has we, this people talked about in 3Nephi, rejected the fulness of the gospel?

Halibut said...

Jeff,

That is one of your most touching posts. In quoting the Pope you have shown great respect for him and your many Catholic neighbors.

I remember walking into Deseret Book across the street from Temple Square shortly after Pope John Paul's death. They hade a large display of a book entitled "The Prayers of Pope John Paul". We bought copies of the book as gifts for our Catholic friends.

DishOfFear said...

What is this nation coming to when millions are enthralled by a man who is a radical socialist, who chooses a preacher (Rev. Wright) that damns America and stirs up discontent and hate for this country, who is not embarrassed to have a long-time relationship with an impenitent terrorist (Ayers) who was quoted on 9/11 saying that he only wish that he had done more bombings?

Anonymous said...

"That is one of your most touching posts. In quoting the Pope you have shown great respect for him and your many Catholic neighbors."

I find this a strange statement, why would LDS not have great respect for the Pope or the Catholics as a religion and their theology? I know they have had and still have problems but as a whole they are trying to do good and want world peace.

Anonymous said...

"What is this nation coming to when millions are enthralled by a man who..."

Check the prophies of the BoM and some of the unauthorized prophies of Joseph Smith and other church leaders. I know! I know! These prophies are not Gospel Doctrine but parts of them may be true and have been put togother from differen sources.

Bookslinger said...

Jeff,
I'm concerned that you and many others don't see the point that Curtis made in comment #2, and at least acknowledge that the Book of Mormon _promises_ that God _will_ curse (or "damn") (and maybe already has started to) this land for our collective iniquities.

That is a theme that is constantly repeated in the Book of Mormon. God will bless the land if we collecetively obey him, and he will curse the land if we collectively sin.

In the part of that infamous talk where he called upon God to "damn" America, Rev Wright (at least in that particular sound bite), is merely asking God to do what the Book of Mormon already promises He would do. Curse us if we disobey God and turn to unrighteousness.

Has our society and culture as a whole turned from God? Abortion is tolerated. All sorts of immorality is encouraged and celebrated in our popular media, and among a sizeable portion of our population.

Our church leaders tell us that every sin of Sodom and Gomorrah are here, and in some cases, even more prevalent or pervasive.

Look at 9/11. God removed his hand of protection from us, and our enemies "smote" us that day. The collective societal and governmental responses to 9/11 have taken away a lot of freedoms.

9/11/2001 was the first time since the war of 1812 where a foreign power attacked us on our soil. (In WWII, Hawaii wasn't a state yet, just a territory.)

Curtis is correct. And in one point, Rev Wright is correct too. According to the Book of Mormon, God _should_ curse this land. According to the Book of Mormon, our country, collectively, does deserve to be cursed and damned for our wickedness.

And merely saying "God bless" is nice, but it's not going to work as well as actually getting in line with righteousness so we can collectively qualify for the blessings we're asking for.

Sure, we need to continue to pray for blessings, but we also better clean up our act, or we're going to be in position like Judah was in the days of Jeremiah, or the Nephites in the days of Mormon.

Your last line hit the nail on the head "... that we may each turn and better follow His ways." That is the best way to invoke the desired blessing.

If one were to judge this nation by what's on prime time TV (especially at 10pm), by cable TV, and by what's persvasive on the Internet, by what's for sale on the magazine racks at most stores, by all the popular music that promotes criminal gang activity and immorality, then Rev Wright actually starts to make sense, especially from a Book of Mormon viewpoint.

I can imagine Lehi, Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni looking upon us from wherever they are, and saying something like "Hey, we told you guys. Obey God, and the land will be blessed for your sakes. Disobey God and the land will be cursed for your sakes."

How do you think America is doing right now, collectively speaking? Which do you think we (collectively) honestly deserve at this point, blessings or cursings?

Cherylem said...

by the way, I found Bill Moyers' interview of Rev. Jeremiah Wright tremendously enlightening - it is worth everyone's time to watch:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html

Anonymous said...

Its a lot easier to dismiss Rev. Wright as a hate filled wacko than to consider the points he makes, most of which are sadly valid.

Anonymous said...

"Its a lot easier to dismiss Rev. Wright as a hate filled wacko than to consider the points he makes, most of which are sadly valid."

Sorry, that might involve actual thinking and more terrifying, Thinking for yourself.
You sir, are on the wrong blog.

Bookslinger said...

I watched the video of Moyer's interview with Rev Wright. And in that video is a clip of the controversial part of Wright's sermon.

BUT, Moyer's clip of Wright's sermon shows enough of the sermon to put the controversial lines in context.

Looking at Wright's sermon in context, shows me that Wright's premis is indeed in line with the Book of Mormon's promises of blessings and cursings upon this land.

I will disagree with Rev Wright about whether the US government is actually fomenting drug use and helping to spread AIDS. Those parts may be just conspiracy theory.

But he lists enough other valid collective sins by our country and by our government that, in my opinion, would qualify our land to merit the curses promised in the Book of Mormon.

Jeff's last line is correct. We each need to turn and better follow His (God's) ways. Both individually and collectively as a nation.

Anonymous said...

"Looking at Wright's sermon in context, shows me that Wright's premis is indeed in line with the Book of Mormon's promises of blessings and cursings upon this land."

The problem with Rev. Wright is his friendship with a Obama. His feelings about the US and 9-11 have been express by many other people that we may being punished for not living as we should as a nation. Pesonally I don't think we are completly lost but we have alot of work to get back on the rightious track. I don't think we will make it unless we get brought down a couple of notches or Christ comes back to guide us.

Halibut said...

Some members of LDS leadership hold the Catholic Church in contempt. In my experience this includes a Bishop and a counselor in the Stake Presidency.

The former counselor of the Stake Presidency has shown his contempt of Catholics, Jews, and Masons in writing.

I have heard Catholics and Protestants "maligned" in Sacrament meetings, Sunday School, and Priesthood meetings. LDS speakers will talk against other religions feigning intelligence, however it is often shown to be ignorance.

On a positive note, It is my understanding that when the new Catholic Bishop of SLC was installed members of the 12 attended.

Anonymous said...

"Some members of LDS leadership hold the Catholic Church in contempt."

I have found this to be true with all other religions. They talk smack about each other then other times they are all nice about it. In each case what is it they are saying. The Catholic history, the problems of abuse, their theology, the programs they offer, the view on family and birth control. Each of these topics can be made into a positive or negative statements. And then some people are just disrespectful.

Aaron said...

Most comments I have heard people make about the Cathoic church and their beliefs, I have not thought were inappropriate. Many LDS members are former Catholics, especially outside of the Mormon Motherland (Utah). My wife is a former Catholic. She has 2 uncles who are Catholic Priests. I attended a Catholic school, attended Mass with my wife for many years, and live in a land with mostly Catholics. I have many religous discussions with many them. My experiences are similar to many members in my Ward.

Most Mormons that I have heard have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church and the good that it does. It is a church that contains many truths. It also contains many beliefs that are contrary to the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. The issues that you have seen personally or the beliefs that you have learned are very relavent in a discussion on the Great Apostacy or other related topics. Talking about them isn't inappropriate.

jayleenb said...

When a people are failing, we are supposed to pray for them and yes, ask God's blessings upon them. Blessings include being able to see failings and repent of them. True Prophets warn in a spirit of love, not hate.

It is not for a lunatic like Wright to request damnation for this entire country. That is God's job alone. Are prophesies being fulfilled? Yes. But men like Wright don't help bring about repentance, they only help foment hatred, bigotry and division.

I thank God for a true and living Prophet, even Thomas S. Monson, who spreads a message of hope and love and healing. It will only be too late for us if the hatred and divisiveness continue, and only God can decide when, and if, that day comes.

God Bless America. And my thanks to the Pope for requesting blessings on us as well.

Michemily said...

But what about the Catholic Church now saying Mormons can't access records anymore?

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm

http://michelleglauser.blogspot.com/2008/05/family-history-we-cant-do-it-my-family.html