tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post112804680157296800..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: The 80s Scare on Ritual Child Abuse and the Church's Paradoxical Position: Taking Allegations Too Seriously?Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128246615364851762005-10-02T04:50:00.000-05:002005-10-02T04:50:00.000-05:00i agree. it's pretty low. i wasn't trying to put y...i agree. it's pretty low. i wasn't trying to put you on the defensive bom indy. i'm not very weirded out by you, either. i just think all this "playing in the sand box" isn't too productive. whenever i stop by for a minute or two to see what's up w/ jeff and his awesomeness, i see all this bickering back and forth. that's what bugs me. not that you may have been inconsiderate in discussing cb/andy's blog. i couldn't really care less about his blog, don't have a desire to visit it. unless by some miracle he had something interesting or cordial to say, i would have little interest in hearing what he has to say at all, let alone speak of him or talk to him. just seems like a waste of time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128234804501718692005-10-02T01:33:00.000-05:002005-10-02T01:33:00.000-05:00It's interesting to see how the same pages from th...It's interesting to see how the same pages from the anti playbook get played over and over, often with the same wording. There are new nicknames and new anonymouses (anonymice?) on other threads who appear to be either new incarnations of either Cory, his other blogger friend (the Vietnam Vet) or other playas from RfM.<BR/><BR/>I gotta admire people like BYU-G who plod through all the scientific evidence. And I sympathize with his (so labeled) former fundamentalist view of the gospel. I too tripped up when I expected others to fit into my rigid expectations of what church leaders and members should do and be. It took me a long time to realize that I couldn't nor shouldn't enforce my expectations on others (even when I'm right! :-)<BR/><BR/>And I do sympathize with Cory and other RfM'ers who've suffered real hurt or discrimination at the hands of church members. I've been there. It can be humiliating, devastating, and testimony destroying.<BR/><BR/>I need to be more humble. I think most of us get, or would get, a kick or a charge out of "making a convert" either to the church, or away from it in the case of the anti's. But it shouldn't be that way. As believers, we should do everything out of love for people, as in loving everyone as an individual, and loving them as a child of God, and loving everyone because we're all in the same boat on this planet. We're all fallen, and all a million miles away from God. <BR/><BR/>But the anti's (specifically those who actively work against the church), and most of the RfM'ers, don't seem to be motivated out of love when trying to "save" people from LDS beliefs or the LDS church. <BR/><BR/>I think most anti-mormon _Christian_ activists really do want to "save us from the errors of our beliefs". Yet the RfM'ers seem to be motivated out of bitterness caused by their own experiences, and they attack the church to hurt it, not to "save us."<BR/><BR/>Cory's entry on his blog about wanting to "'f' with the Mormons", made his intentions clear. Though I'm not sure what his Vet friend's motives are yet. And I think this blog has attracted more wolves in sheep clothing, and/or Cory is back for another try just being anonymous this time. The whining and phraseology is just too RfM-ish.<BR/><BR/>To the anonymous who is weirded out by me: Sorry. But I was told I was not welcome in their sandbox, that pro-Mormon or apologetic information is not welcome on their boards, and then some of them came here and defecated in this sandbox while I'm playing in it. Bad form.<BR/><BR/>I didn't "out" Cory or identify him publicly. I gave his blog URL to Jeff, and I think Daniel Peterson. After all, he linked to Mormanity and to my blog from his blog. His blog _is_ public, and if you click-click-click a few times, you can find his full name.<BR/><BR/>I only mentioned his first name, which is a common one. (Ok, I mentioned the 1st two letters of his blog url, just to let him know.)<BR/><BR/>Sometimes we forget that blogs are public. If you don't want something in your blog diseminated further, it's a bad idea to put it on a blog. The net is about diseminating information.<BR/><BR/>But I've respected his wish to keep his identity hidden, just as I'm not ready to go public yet either. But Jeff does have my real name and phone #, and an email address for me. If you contact the stake presidency here, they know the guy who's been giving out foreign language books.<BR/><BR/>Jeff's been a lot more tolerant of the posting of anti views on his blog than I would be. And he's extremely more tolerant of polite anti questions or accusations than the RfM board is of apologetic information. So I think a little perspective and truth is called for when one of the RfM'ers comes and defecates here.<BR/><BR/>It's one thing to put forth your views, but it's pretty low-down trying to trip people up by faking a "de-conversion".Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128195129921382242005-10-01T14:32:00.000-05:002005-10-01T14:32:00.000-05:00Amadi/CB/Chris/Andy or whoever you are, thanks at ...Amadi/CB/Chris/Andy or whoever you are, thanks at least for sharing a little more about yourself and where you are coming from. <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry if you really think I'm minimalizing child abuse. I abhor it and have fought against in several ways with some success. But that does not mean we have to accept allegations that have been proven false or become hysterical about alleged Satanists. If they are real, let's root them out legally and sanely and protect our children - but do you REALLY want me to believe that you're waging you little battle against the Church because of your tender desires to protect children? Isn't the whole point that you think you can slander the Church by suggesting that it's an unsafe place? <BR/><BR/>If parents want their children to be safe and happy, there are few better things they can do than to become active in the Church and help their children live the standards of the Gospel. Always be watchful and recognize that there are wolves in sheep's clothing, but the Church is one of the best insitutions ever for families and young people. Active LDS kids grow up with a lot more power to resist the evils of the world, lower risks of getting STDs or drug addicitons, better health, and so forth - and a higher likelihood of raising sound families of their own. They are not entering the dangerous dark world painted by anti-Mormons.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128149440167420242005-10-01T01:50:00.000-05:002005-10-01T01:50:00.000-05:00you are so ridiculous, dude. i dont mean to be ins...you are so ridiculous, dude. i dont mean to be insulting in any way when i say that. it's just so hard to not laugh at this whole thing. the funniest thing is when anyone comes on here and insults jeff. seriously, jeff is the man. sometimes he gets a little extreme in his views, but i rarely meet people as considerate and fair as he is. by claiming otherwise just shows your ignorance and makes me want to waste less time w/ you... <BR/><BR/>there would be nothing wrong w/ your blog if it was CIVIL and didn't have PORNOGRAPHY all over it (at least, that's what jeff claims is all over it - i didn't actually go cuz frankly i don't care that much). you really need to get a life man. get out and have some fun. i frankly think i am wasting too much time myself by commenting here to give you that advice. go outside!! enjoy God's creations. <BR/><BR/><BR/>BOM Indy, same for you, dawg....you really weird me out by spending all that time searching different blogs for anddy/cb's background. really, who cares? in a normal world, he wouldn't lie to us about being an investigator, and you could just ask him his background and he would tell you honestly. all this searching is pointless. if he wants to hide, let him hide. not worth the effort, in my opinion, alllll these comments, some so long, just the bickering back and forth. it's not what the gospel is about, nor the book of mormon. just seems like a waste of time to me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128145308376975982005-10-01T00:41:00.000-05:002005-10-01T00:41:00.000-05:00Speaking of fear... I am no longer allowed to post...Speaking of fear... I am no longer allowed to post with my login here because Jeff does not want others to see my blog -- which contains the truth about Mormonism.<BR/><BR/>Even though Jeff probably enjoys seeing his comments climb and climb because you all have me to attack... I am going to invite the Mormophobic post for a discussion on my blog -- but I cannot tell you what it is... But I am going to repost your Mormophobic comment on my blog, which out of respect to our host will remain nameless here... it is his little party after all... but if you search a line from the mormophobic post in Google -- in quotes -- you'll find my blog...<BR/><BR/>I will entertain your attacks there and invite you to come...<BR/><BR/>I especially invite Indy... the ironic thing is that while I am not Yuruban... men he seems to have a lot of interest in... I am Igbo, from Nigeria, which was colonized by the British... so thank you for the comment about my vocabulary, English is not my first language. But anyway, when I visit Indianapolis, my tar black skin will be like a magnet to Indy... and he will offer me a book of Mormon... and I promise that when he asks me if I speak French... well, he will be suprised.<BR/><BR/>And since you all seem so curious about my name, my real name is Amadi.<BR/><BR/>Please check my real blog for a line by line reflection on the mormophobic comment --<BR/><BR/>Goodbye.<BR/><BR/>I shall miss you, but since Jeff fears my login, and obviously the truth, well, my work here is done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128134379852844912005-09-30T21:39:00.000-05:002005-09-30T21:39:00.000-05:00hahaha boom shakalaka. good list, i laughed and la...hahaha boom shakalaka. good list, i laughed and laughed. so true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128132622243106322005-09-30T21:10:00.000-05:002005-09-30T21:10:00.000-05:00You Know You May Be Mormophobic When:1. You realiz...You Know You May Be Mormophobic When:<BR/><BR/>1. You realize that killing the prophet didn’t stop it; outlawing polygamy didn’t stop it; that fake salamander deal didn’t even put a dent in it. The only thing left to do is PANIC, and shotgun blast it with everything you can think of, no matter how pathetic the argument, after all, at least the faithless will listen, right?<BR/><BR/>2. It just cuts you to the core to think of the millions of Mormons who pay all that tithing, donate all those hours of time and labor, and sacrifice so much for their religion. How could anybody be so stupid? <BR/><BR/>3. You know better than to believe in a self proclaimed, money-digging sexually deviate pervert, and you don’t think anybody else should either.<BR/><BR/>4. You love to attack the weakness of its leaders, because you believe they should be absolutely perfect.<BR/><BR/>5. Your testimony crumbled, because you built it on the dust of steel (non-stainless of course), elephants, and horses, and everybody else is just plain silly for believing in faith and obedience, like the bible teaches. Intellectual knowledge is so much better, and you are so much smarter than everyone else.<BR/><BR/>6. You just love telling others what they believe according to your “research”. You love reading other peoples’ minds.<BR/><BR/>7. You like to impress people by using the same lame arguments and augmenting them with philosophical fluff, when in reality, the only thing that is impressive is your vocabulary.<BR/><BR/>8. It makes you feel so superior to make fun of people for their heartfelt religious convictions. You love name calling, and you have an unnatural attraction for sheep and robots.<BR/><BR/>9. You couldn’t cut it as a Mormon, because of your weakness, so you gave up, blamed it on the hierarchy, and want to make sure you get even.<BR/><BR/>10. Because of your own experience, you’ve concluded that God just doesn’t influence people through the Holy Ghost, He doesn’t answer anyone’s prayers, and it is just impossible to know of spiritual things. Therefore, no one else can have these experiences, because since you haven’t experienced them, they do not exist.<BR/><BR/>CS<BR/>Fort Worth, TexasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128128818576533112005-09-30T20:06:00.000-05:002005-09-30T20:06:00.000-05:00no dinky link hink: Thanks for joining the part...no dinky link hink: Thanks for joining the party. "Can't tell the players without a program." <BR/><BR/>"Welcome home." Thanks for your service, and all that. I admire people who survived the University of Southeast Asia.<BR/><BR/>But then what you've really said is that you're not the same guy who originally posted here as Cory/Andy, but have just taken over the Andy nick or are using other blog personae. Are you his illustrator? I think that would put you in the right age range to be a Vietnam Vet.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your analysis of me. Interesting.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128127906045044082005-09-30T19:51:00.000-05:002005-09-30T19:51:00.000-05:00Books Of Mormon In Indy:Thanks for thinking that I...Books Of Mormon In Indy:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for thinking that I am the writer of the blog you refer to as having a November 2004 entry. I am sadly not half the writer that man is. But I apreciate it and he does in fact link to your blog which is how I found you. But I am not him.<BR/><BR/>But if you want to psych me out... I did in fact serve in Vietnam and have been diagnosed as having PTSD but also a mild case of AntiSocial Personality Disorder. Surprise surprise.<BR/><BR/>If you have the right to hand out books to strangers... I surely have the right to express my views to you all.<BR/><BR/>Also... you can be easily psychoanalyzed as well.<BR/><BR/>Sheep personality. Loves authority. Afraid to take personal action. Frightened of making decisions for self. Sad, pitiful pathetic.<BR/><BR/>See... theres your shoe... wear it.<BR/><BR/>Jeff -- you seem determined to delete even the most innocent of my posts... please wait until Indy sees this... I hate him confusing me with other anti-mormons. I want him to know that there are more than one of us out there.<BR/><BR/>PS Jeff... you surprised me. I thought you would deny the Pace memo -- what you did was minimize child ritual abuse... I smiled. You folks are icky.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128105573225696152005-09-30T13:39:00.000-05:002005-09-30T13:39:00.000-05:00Cory/Andy: I beg to differ. I don't think your ...Cory/Andy: <BR/> I beg to differ. I don't think your new blog is very honest. It has too many twisted-truths, half-truths, and outright lies.<BR/><BR/> I have volunteered at veteran organizations for several years. I recognized something in you (and other RfM'ers) that is common to combat veterans. That is PTSD, or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to tell you what originally clued me, because then it will just go into the "playbook" as "don't do this."<BR/><BR/>But, if your November 2004 archives are anywhere near accurate, that confirmed my original guess.<BR/><BR/>Social workers and others in the mental/emotional field have made great strides in identifying PTSD and helping people overcome it.<BR/><BR/>I had a form of PTSD due to a traumatic injury in childhood, and some abuse in my life, some of it even at the hands of (probably well-meaning) overbearing church members.<BR/><BR/>I didn't think certain episodes I had were really "flashbacks" because I didn't hallucinate that I was actually in the past. But, I was doing what I call "replaying the tape in my mind" of the trauma and stressful events, and I was trying to "edit the tape" by imagining (and sometimes acting out in private) what I "should have" said and done.<BR/><BR/>The attempts at "editing the tape" never worked for me. No matter how much I rehearsed what I _should_ have said and done, the original tape kept playing over in my mind.<BR/><BR/>I finally found some peace (not a complete cure, I'm still working on it) when I went to LDS Family Services, and to Heavenly Father and asked to have the power of the Atonement remove the effects of the trauma and abuse.<BR/><BR/>Have you caught yourself replaying mental tapes of past stressful/traumatic events and then trying to "correct/edit" the tape in your mind? Have you ever blamed yourself by thinking "If only I had done such-and-such, he/they wouldn't have been able to hurt me." Do you find yourself trying to insert scenes of what you "should have done" into those memory tapes? Do external things (words, smells, pictures, events) sometimes trigger memories, and you find yourself going into a rage just because a memory resurfaced again? I've gone through all those things.<BR/><BR/>If you have, then get to a professional, because that can be cured, and you CAN find peace. I know combat veterans who have suffered for decades and finally find a measure of peace when they go for help. <BR/><BR/>Back in the 60's and 70's health care professionals didn't know how to identify or treat combat vets with PTSD, but now there are more information and programs and treatments for both combat trauma and abuse trauma. They are amazingly similar, because of the horror, and the inability of the victims to control the situation they were in.<BR/><BR/>Even in the cases where there is a clear "bad guy" (the enemy in war, a child molester, an abusive parent, an abusive church member or leader), the victim **CAN** find healing. The healing of the victim is not dependent on the punishment or repentance of the perpetror.<BR/><BR/>If you deny the existance of God, and Christ's infinite atonement that paid not only for all sins, but for all suffering at the hands of sinners, it _might_ be harder or longer for your recovery, but agnostics and atheists still **CAN** be helped by professionals if you find one that is knowledgeable, caring, and can get in tune with your particular situation.<BR/><BR/>Yes, bad things do happen in the tru church. It's been that way since Cain slew Abel. The scriptures contain plenty of examples of people screwing up. And I've related a few instances of (relatively minor) suffering at the hands of church members. But regardless of the number or severity of messed up people, the Gospel is true, and the church is true. <BR/><BR/>You're free to disagree, of course. <BR/><BR/>But dude, it takes one to know one, and I can see how you're still filled with the poison and toxin of past abuse and having the wounds fester all your life. THAT is what I think is fueling your rage, and that of many (not all) RfM'ers.<BR/><BR/>No matter what you "prove" here or on your blog or in your mocumentary, those memory tapes are going to keep replaying in your mind, and stirring you up to rage. The solution or resolution to your pain does not lie in what anyone else does or believes. You can't control the minds or actions of others. <BR/><BR/>The resolution to your pain lies in YOU. You can't erase the memory tapes, but you CAN control the tape-player so they don't keep popping up on the TV screen of your mind. And, you can control your REACTIONS to them when those tapes accidentally get played.<BR/><BR/>For me, focusing on the fact that Christ paid for my suffering, and paid for their sins, helps me. When I think "Someone's gotta PAY for that!" I try to remember that Christ already did. Figuratively speaking, I take the check that Christ wrote in Gethsemane, and which he signed on the cross, and take it to Heavenly Father for healing.<BR/><BR/>Now if you want to find a counselor (or "consultant" as I call them, which sounds better to my macho-male ego) who can help you work though that philosophically without the religious context, then go for it, because that can work too. <BR/><BR/>A very good book on how to mentally survive the abuse of others is an ancient Roman text "The Enchiridion" by the Stoic philosopher Epictetus. Do a search on the title, and you can easily find 2 or 3 translations into English online. It's public domain. You can also buy it online at Amazon and other places, or download from Project Gutenberg.<BR/><BR/>Epictetus, or the Stoic philosophy, is amazingly Christian without the heavy religious context. But Epictetus actually helped me be a better Christian.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128098061447848602005-09-30T11:34:00.000-05:002005-09-30T11:34:00.000-05:00Jeff: You're not the only recipient of this blogge...Jeff: You're not the only recipient of this blogger's comments. He's posting links to his hideous web page at other blogs as well, including <A HREF="http://mormonwasp.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow"><I>The Mormon Wasp</I></A>, where he goes by the name "Andy."Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04120374705032268459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128088348107167772005-09-30T08:52:00.000-05:002005-09-30T08:52:00.000-05:00PS -- The Pace memo is truth -- not an over an ove...PS -- The Pace memo is truth -- not an over an over blown reaction to a small problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128088310578071272005-09-30T08:51:00.001-05:002005-09-30T08:51:00.001-05:00Fascinating link to Introvigne's "Da Vinci Code" p...Fascinating link to Introvigne's "Da Vinci Code" paper, thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128088309345175732005-09-30T08:51:00.000-05:002005-09-30T08:51:00.000-05:00I will give J. Staply a phone call and offer him m...I will give J. Staply a phone call and offer him my actual real name and address and phone number if he has the courage to post his phone number. I'd like to know why I should care that he wants my IP address. Or is this another example of boastful, Mormon coersion? Power tripping psychotics? Manipulative and dare I say evil crusaders of lies?<BR/><BR/>Jeff, when I created my new blog, I had no idea that you would start to delete all my comments simply because my profile links to the new honest blog. I thought you wanted me to be honest and so I came clean and let you know the real purpose: a staggering and truthful feature length documentary. If you guys loved Farhenheit 9-11 you are really going to love this one. I am the real Michael Moore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128080618667379582005-09-30T06:43:00.000-05:002005-09-30T06:43:00.000-05:00Hey, if your friend CB can pose a sickening sweet ...Hey, if your friend CB can pose a sickening sweet little new member looking for truth, all innocent about them anti-Mormons, just to lure Mormons away, then I guess we need to worry that other spooky followers of Satan might try to pose as real members and might try to desecrate LDS temples by holding "black mass" based on the temple rather than a mass. But it would be very hard to carry out this kind of deception for long and the risks and costs would be high. CB was exposed in a jiffy - I don't think closet Satanists can get very far infiltratinig a church, although the gays in the Catholic priesthood lasted quite a while, it's sad to note - with the help of powerful fellows - much more like a conspiracy. So perhaps there was some substance to the big scare, but it seems mostly hype. <BR/><BR/>As for spooky anti-Mormons in hypocritical positions attempting to desecrate the Temple, doesn't that happen every General Conference when so-called "ministers" try to "minister to Mormons in love" by yelling, shouting, and waving Temple garments around?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128060802141677462005-09-30T01:13:00.000-05:002005-09-30T01:13:00.000-05:00Jeff, will you drop me an email with that persons ...Jeff, will you drop me an email with that persons IP adress if you still have it on record?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128059780521038422005-09-30T00:56:00.000-05:002005-09-30T00:56:00.000-05:00When a teacher (male) is inappropriate with girls ...When a teacher (male) is inappropriate with girls it is often reported in very small details. It gets nowhere near the press that Homosexual abuse does. I think we would be surprised. <BR/><BR/>Great Blog Jeff. And you are right-----A BISHOP must be very forthright in taking action if he believes that things are not right in a certain situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128051320122518072005-09-29T22:35:00.000-05:002005-09-29T22:35:00.000-05:00Or maybe its just more reported in our media.Or maybe its just more reported in our media.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1128050178197083242005-09-29T22:16:00.000-05:002005-09-29T22:16:00.000-05:00Massimo also has a great essay on the flaws in the...Massimo also has a great <A HREF="http://www.cesnur.org/2005/mi_02_03d.htm" REL="nofollow">essay on the flaws in the DaVinci Code</A> on the same site.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.com