tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post112978081583285597..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Evil Church Leaders: My First-Hand ExperienceJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129870903637694502005-10-21T00:01:00.000-05:002005-10-21T00:01:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129870528624659402005-10-20T23:55:00.000-05:002005-10-20T23:55:00.000-05:00I deleted the last two comments - sorry. I don't w...I deleted the last two comments - sorry. I don't want a fight to break out here. <BR/><BR/>For the times when we are offended by Church leaders, forgiveness and charity are desperately needed. Grace and mercy in judgment may be something we all need someday ourselves!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129868517920557592005-10-20T23:21:00.000-05:002005-10-20T23:21:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129853219396685142005-10-20T19:06:00.000-05:002005-10-20T19:06:00.000-05:00I had a Bishop in my youth who once told me (as be...I had a Bishop in my youth who once told me (as best I remember):<BR/><BR/>“Some Bishops encourage souls to come to Christ through divinely inspired wisdom and mercy while others challenge our faith due to their humanity." This Bishop said he had been both which had brought him to his knees in thankfulness for God’s mercy and in remorse for his weakness.<BR/><BR/>It seams to me that the challenge is to follow Christ’s teaching to forgive (not always easy or automatic). Besides, I hope for mercy, cause if I get justice I’m in serious trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129851443706374792005-10-20T18:37:00.000-05:002005-10-20T18:37:00.000-05:00I don't think anyone would claim that there are no...I don't think anyone would claim that there are <I>no</I> bishops (in a church of 14,000 bishops) that are less than equal to the task. The calling is demanding, and there are few in each ward who are up to the task spiritually and emotionally, and from time to time people are called who do not live up to the calling.<BR/><BR/>Fortunately that's why there is a line of authority above the bishop that goes from stake president to area authority seventy to apostle to Church president. If you have a serious problem with a bishop, and you are unable to resolve it with him personally, take it up the chain of command.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04120374705032268459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129846986676659272005-10-20T17:23:00.000-05:002005-10-20T17:23:00.000-05:00[i]I know who that last commenter was. Thanks much...[i]I know who that last commenter was. Thanks much!! You win a jar of my wife's super applesauce, made from our Jonathan apple trees using her dual-batch process.[/i]<BR/><BR/>Oooh, I think you were a great bishop too. Can I have some applesauce?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129845619011569792005-10-20T17:00:00.000-05:002005-10-20T17:00:00.000-05:00Looks like Chris and Bill aren't finished playing ...Looks like Chris and Bill aren't finished playing games.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129842759409250372005-10-20T16:12:00.000-05:002005-10-20T16:12:00.000-05:00This is exactly why I hope never to be a Bishop! L...This is exactly why I hope never to be a Bishop! Looks like nasty business. Fortunately, I can prevent that from happening by refusing to shave my beard if ever a calling like that is extended!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129842070061697812005-10-20T16:01:00.000-05:002005-10-20T16:01:00.000-05:00But, then, there are really evil leaders, too, not...But, then, there are really evil leaders, too, not just those who innocently offend others by their actions. I can tell real horror stories about a current Bishop. I have never seen anything like this in my life. There has been a lot of iniquity in the Ward, and a lot of things going on behind the scenes that should not be going on in the Church.<BR/><BR/>Those who were witnesses and/or who knew of the iniquity and tried to tell the Bishop and other local leaders what they knew were silenced and/or punished in various ways. Some of these families are suffering to a great degree.<BR/><BR/>There is much more I could tell about this but other people have already received threats regarding their church membership just for saying anything about this stuff so I probably shouldn't say anything more. Maybe I should have said nothing at all. Then again, members of one family are beginning to wonder if being members is still worth it and I am beginning to wonder the same thing. The Ward literally is beginning to come apart at the seams because of the goings on but no one seems to want (or, be able?) to do anything about it because it just continues.<BR/><BR/>I agree that many times we can expect too much from Bishops and most just try to serve but offend people along the way, but sometimes there really are those who really can destroy a Ward and peoples' lives along with it. Thankfully they are far and few between. I had never known a truly evil leader before and I never thought I'd ever meet one. I suppose one should learn never to say never. Then again, maybe it's just a matter of perspective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129833492115575992005-10-20T13:38:00.000-05:002005-10-20T13:38:00.000-05:00Hi this is my first time at your blog and you made...Hi this is my first time at your blog and you made me realize that I might have been judging Bishops too harshly. I have only had one Bishop in my life who offended me and hurt me so much I actually considered leaving the church. The vast mijority of my Bishops have been great people in my mind and the Bishop in my last ward was so exceptional I expect him to be a General authority or translated soon.<BR/><BR/>The Bishop who offended me actually asked me not to come to church because of my depression. He said some things I thought were inapropriate and he did some very hurtful things to my family.<BR/><BR/>As I read your blog I was able to forgive just a little more and let go just a little more. I realize he most likely did not do these things on purpose, he did them because he is human.Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02934800121357524008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129827885636509172005-10-20T12:04:00.000-05:002005-10-20T12:04:00.000-05:00Clark Goble said: "I think we expect too much from...Clark Goble said: "I think we expect too much from Bishops. I think some people expect the Bishop to somehow be Jesus Christ, when they clearly are not."<BR/><BR/>Some people too easily forget that Jesus wasn't viewed by many people of his time as very nice. In fact, many people viewed Him as evil.<BR/><BR/>Bishops obviously aren't Jesus Christ, but people are people--they made misjudgments then and they do now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129814561702677222005-10-20T08:22:00.000-05:002005-10-20T08:22:00.000-05:00I did not imply that you were a bad bishop. Haven'...I did not imply that you were a bad bishop. Haven't been in the ward were you serve disqualifies me to comment on what you did. The list that you describe could fit any bishop, provided that it was made by someone offended by a bishop. From snippets that you have stated through out your pages, it seems that you did your very best to serve the people who you presided. I did not want to criticise you Jeff. I apologise if it sounded like that. <BR/><BR/>The second part of my comment still stands, I think. People called to preside, bishops, stake presidents, elder's quorum, etc. should know the people that they preside. I like the story that Elder Harold G Hillam (he has just been released) told in a General Conference address about a <A HREF="http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2005.htm/ensign%20may%202005.htm/the%20worth%20of%20souls.htm" REL="nofollow"> stake president</A>. I think that leaders as such are great. Just a thought. Leaders can be 'evil' if we want to see them as evil persons. The same comment made with a different mind frame can cause a great offence. Sometimes harmless remarks can make people feel bad. I guess that most comments that you posted about yourself were done by persons that possesed 'other spirit' in the soul.AlexGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09419111994859972886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129809376337346802005-10-20T06:56:00.000-05:002005-10-20T06:56:00.000-05:00I know who that last commenter was. Thanks much!! ...I know who that last commenter was. Thanks much!! You win a jar of my wife's super applesauce, made from our Jonathan apple trees using her dual-batch process. <BR/><BR/>I really didn't mean to imply that I was a bad bishop - I felt really good about the work we did - but in a small handful of cases, well-intentioned actions became grievous sins in the eyes of others. And in a few cases, I certainly made mistakes. So for those looking to find accusations to make, there are many to choose from. The list I offered could be lengthened considerably, I'm sure.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129795099777443162005-10-20T02:58:00.000-05:002005-10-20T02:58:00.000-05:0099.9% of what you say is inflated. You were the k...99.9% of what you say is inflated. You were the kindest and most concerned Bishop possible. The only negative i ever heard during your Bishop years was that you spent too much time working with the youth. Which I considered a complement to you.<BR/><BR/>You were a benevolent Bishop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129794789467304012005-10-20T02:53:00.000-05:002005-10-20T02:53:00.000-05:00Jeff, you sound like the typical bishop. I do not ...Jeff, you sound like the typical bishop. I do not know how was your time when you served as a bishop but I guess that members had the 'If I was the bishop' syndrome. Every one has the right answer and the bishop is just too idiotic not to see it clearly. Offenses can come in various disguises. I have know bishops that would rather stay for the 99 sheep that go for the one that is lost. Some are complacent, believing that <I>X</I> years in the Church would garantee them the required knowledge. But I also recongnise that the bishop has a mantle that exceeds all intelect and reason. I know that he will be judged for how he managed his bishopric. It is good that you have tried to mend fences with those that got offended, but I side with you in that some members can get easliy offended. <BR/><BR/>I believe that a bishop/stake president should know a bit of the people over which he presides. The cloack is not one of comfort but one of responsability. That is why I am glad that I have not served as a bishop. The above descriptions and possibly more could be attributed to me.AlexGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09419111994859972886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1129785623793636312005-10-20T00:20:00.000-05:002005-10-20T00:20:00.000-05:00I agree. I think we expect too much from Bishops....I agree. I think we expect too much from Bishops. I think some people expect the Bishop to somehow be Jesus Christ, when they clearly are not. I don't understand where that attitude comes from. I've had Bishops do some odd things at times. One told my wife not to date me because I was just a player using her. It was pretty surreal. But it's not like I let it get to me. I just figured he was trying his best and blew that call pretty significantly. <BR/><BR/>I don't understand why people set up these unrealistic expectations I guess. That's not to devalue the great service they provide nor to suggest in the least we ignore Bishops. But surely there is some middle ground from treating them as innerrant and from backbiting or over focusing in on their every word.Clark Goblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03876620613578404474noreply@blogger.com