tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post113194451442734557..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Wine and Honey in MesoamericaJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-62882738114464864812008-11-22T10:20:00.000-06:002008-11-22T10:20:00.000-06:00If you go to YOUTUBE.com, The Backyard Professor d...If you go to YOUTUBE.com, The Backyard Professor does a set of videos entitled, "Book of Mormon, Archaeology & Metals Part 5" in a series of several.<BR/><BR/>He is reading from a Mayan publication from modern day NON LDS scholars/archaeologists and he says the name of the obsidian/wood sword. apparently the design is so wicked, it was much sharper than the steel sort of the Eastern hemisphere. Was well known for chopping off limbs with one swing. Anyways the word in the book is "MAKA WHITTLE" I am not sure how it is spelled, but that is what the video points out.<BR/><BR/>Maka Whittle is the Mayan Sword dating back to the days of the book of Mormon, ANOTHER TESTAMENT of Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>fairlds.org<BR/>jefflindsay.comUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13811258566860688484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1143131391912884472006-03-23T10:29:00.000-06:002006-03-23T10:29:00.000-06:00Im doin a history project and im 15. did the ancie...Im doin a history project and im 15. did the ancient mayans have plastics? if so what did they use them for? thxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132748988767112122005-11-23T06:29:00.000-06:002005-11-23T06:29:00.000-06:00Anonymous at 3:30:I'll type this slowly so you don...Anonymous at 3:30:<BR/><BR/>I'll type this slowly so you don't get confused.<BR/><BR/>Raving about someone's sarcasm = personal attacks = ad hominem.<BR/><BR/>Sarcasm = not the topic of the post = collateral issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132711033063422592005-11-22T19:57:00.000-06:002005-11-22T19:57:00.000-06:00Oy vey. Sorry all. I should have ignored the sar...Oy vey. Sorry all. I should have ignored the sarcastic comment to begin with (shaking head at the insansity of it all)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132702222423325442005-11-22T17:30:00.000-06:002005-11-22T17:30:00.000-06:00Looks like somone needs to look up ad hominem.Oh w...Looks like somone needs to look up ad hominem.<BR/>Oh wait, they are on a collateral issue. Well that explains it all. <BR/><BR/>Notice: Please keep all ad hominem attacks focused on the topic of the post.<BR/><BR/>Thanks someone that has an unpronouncable name.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132457827150129672005-11-19T21:37:00.000-06:002005-11-19T21:37:00.000-06:00Anonymous: I was about to say how happy I am that...Anonymous: I was about to say how happy I am that you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a referendum on who's the most sarcastic. But of course, that would be sarcastic of me. So here I am at my most forthright: Please stop. You're engaging in ad hominem attacks on a collateral issue rather than discussing the actual topic of the thread. If you're having a lot of trouble remembering what that was, read the original post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132457445758721742005-11-19T21:30:00.000-06:002005-11-19T21:30:00.000-06:00Oh the old "he started it first" argument.OK, if t...Oh the old "he started it first" argument.<BR/>OK, if that is the way you see it. <BR/>Do you note any sarcasm in today's (Nov 19th)post by Jeff? <BR/>Do you not think that Dan's posts just drip with sarcasm? <BR/>As to the anon at 9:51,<BR/> You are not fooling anyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132344626872096352005-11-18T14:10:00.000-06:002005-11-18T14:10:00.000-06:00Anon:If you will notice, the sarcasm you note is o...Anon:<BR/><BR/>If you will notice, the sarcasm you note is only in response to the first jabs by critics. Whether or not you think such rhetorical revenge is justified, it is nevertheless not as simple as an "evil Mormons-honest Galileo" caricature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132336273801370282005-11-18T11:51:00.000-06:002005-11-18T11:51:00.000-06:00Anon: "...and watch us give each other group hugs ...Anon: <I>"...and watch us give each other group hugs while we agree with each other's posts and how clever we are."</I><BR/><BR/>Kind of like how they do it on the RfM board.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132322296212159072005-11-18T07:58:00.000-06:002005-11-18T07:58:00.000-06:00Oh Yeah Granny, gotta watch it with the sarcastic ...Oh Yeah Granny, gotta watch it with the sarcastic humor on this site. Although, come to think of it, much of the sarcastic humor on this board comes from Dan and Jeff. Huh? Oh, my mistake. Sarcastic humor is only acceptable if it is directed at anyone that brings up a dissenting view. <BR/>Feel free to stand back and watch us give each other group hugs while we agree with each other's posts and how clever we are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132282731111357122005-11-17T20:58:00.000-06:002005-11-17T20:58:00.000-06:00Mistake understood--apology accepted. Thanks for w...Mistake understood--apology accepted. <BR/>Thanks for writing.<BR/>Granny<BR/>P.S. If I'm ever in need of someone to lead a siege, I hope I can call on you! ;>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132281952171904522005-11-17T20:45:00.000-06:002005-11-17T20:45:00.000-06:00Sorry Granny. My mistake. Much of the sarcastic ...Sorry Granny. My mistake. Much of the sarcastic humor on this blog is directed at Mormons so I switched on siege mentality. <BR/><BR/>I would certainly agree as to futility of the sword argument. If the Book of Mormon were truly false, as you know, FAR larger issues should be in question. Rather, critics have to start playing word games with swords and horses when, in fact, the name of a thing has relatively little to do with its historical concreteness.<BR/><BR/>Again, my apologies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132274562983930892005-11-17T18:42:00.000-06:002005-11-17T18:42:00.000-06:00Walker, I'm afraid you misunderstood.Mostly I betr...Walker, I'm afraid you misunderstood.<BR/>Mostly I betrayed my weakness in the ability to express myself accurately, and in attempting a bit of humor. I most certainly was not trying to disprove the BofM, only trying to express my view of the futility of anti-folks trying to make a good case against the BofM by focusing on <I>swords</I>, for pete's sake, and how silly it sounds for them to fuss about it. My intent was to show that a sword doesn't have to be the shiny object we picture today. The BoM folks undoubtedly had a vast array of "weapons of mass destruction," (they certainly destroyed a lot of "masses!") and what does it matter if their swords don't match our concept of a sword? It seems so silly to keep harping on it. I was interested in Samuel's description of his friend's collection, and that brought to mind my youthful antics. Sorry if I misled you.<BR/>I have a total, profound testimony of the the Gospel and the Book of Mormon, and I don't care what their "swords" looked like; if they utilized a willow stick to smack somebody, and called it a sword, that's fine with me. This sword issue seems such a silly thing to use to try to discredit the Book, when there's so much to gain by addressing real issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132267669236854942005-11-17T16:47:00.000-06:002005-11-17T16:47:00.000-06:00That should be: "After all, if you..."That should be: "After all, if you..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132265105601017252005-11-17T16:05:00.000-06:002005-11-17T16:05:00.000-06:00Granny:We have before us a paragon of proviniciali...Granny:<BR/><BR/>We have before us a paragon of provinicialism. Thanks for your astounding insight into how one betrays his/her own naivete. <BR/><BR/>After, if you can't disprove something, you should mock it well!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132085066279599822005-11-15T14:04:00.000-06:002005-11-15T14:04:00.000-06:00Hey, when I was a little girl (aka tomboy) and I m...Hey, when I was a little girl (aka tomboy) and I made a wooden thingy that I called a sword, that puppy was a SWORD. So, for myself, I see no reason at all that the BoM people couldn't have had swords, whatever the material. I mean, what would it matter? If it was used as a sword (walks like a duck, quacks like a duck)it oughta be a sword. Results would be the same. (I'll bet if you got poked with one of those obsidian-edged jobs, it sure would smart, huh?)<BR/><BR/>In any case, I believe those BoM fighting folks were every bit as smart then as little kids are now at creating weapons of destruction, though I personally never destructed anyone. Honest!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132043820577097042005-11-15T02:37:00.000-06:002005-11-15T02:37:00.000-06:00There are other beverages that can be alcoholic, s...There are other beverages that can be alcoholic, such as <I>tepache</I> that might have other components than grapes. I do not know what sort of <I>vineyards</I> they had in the Book of Mormon times, or the <I>wine presses.</I> When more knowledge becomes available about the Mesoamerican culture, we might be able to know what those terms could refer to. But for now, this issue seems like the man who left the Church at the turn of the 20th century because it was ridiculous to think that there were <I>'cement'</I> constructions in the Americas.AlexGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09419111994859972886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132019731875683862005-11-14T19:55:00.000-06:002005-11-14T19:55:00.000-06:00Or agave.Or agave.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132019690061359842005-11-14T19:54:00.000-06:002005-11-14T19:54:00.000-06:00Maguey orchards, perhaps?Maguey orchards, perhaps?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1132017043683753882005-11-14T19:10:00.000-06:002005-11-14T19:10:00.000-06:00But of course, the term "vineyards" is used elsewh...But of course, the term "vineyards" is used elsewhere in the Book of Mormon to refer to the place where olives are grown. (This is consistent with some ancient near-eastern use of the terms for "vineyard.") Olives don't grow on vines at all. So we need not require that the "vineyards" that Noah had planted contained vines, but only that they were growing places for whatever he used to produce "wine."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1131987438359538812005-11-14T10:57:00.000-06:002005-11-14T10:57:00.000-06:00To honestly address this, we have to deal with Mos...To honestly address this, we have to deal with <A HREF="http://scriptures.lds.org/mosiah/11/15#15" REL="nofollow">Mosiah 11:15</A> —<BR/><BR/><I>"And it came to pass that he [king Noah] planted vineyards round about in the land; and he built wine-presses, and made wine in abundance; and therefore he became a wine-bibber, and also his people."</I><BR/><BR/>So whatever this wine was made from, it was cultivated in vineyards and pressed out. Does anything meet this qualification besides grapes?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04120374705032268459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1131983283974358202005-11-14T09:48:00.000-06:002005-11-14T09:48:00.000-06:00As a sidenote, the Hebrew word for honey refers no...As a sidenote, the Hebrew word for honey refers not only to bee honey, but to the sweet sticky substance made by boiling down figs or grape juice. <BR/><BR/>Hebrew had several words that get translated as wine. Some probably refer to grape-wine and others just to intoxicating drink.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1131956223975661302005-11-14T02:17:00.000-06:002005-11-14T02:17:00.000-06:00Another interesting thing. Before Cortes landed in...Another interesting thing. Before Cortes landed in Mexico, there were several alcoholic bevrages that were consummed by the natives. From the <I>magüeyes</I> they extracted <I>agua miel</I> or honey water that was later on fermented to make <I>pulque.</I> It is highly intoxicating, by the way. Could that be considered as wine? I do not know.AlexGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09419111994859972886noreply@blogger.com