tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post116305076803695785..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Cutting a Little Slack for Ex-MormonsJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger135125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-20052505654126145252018-01-20T10:55:58.683-06:002018-01-20T10:55:58.683-06:00I really appreciate this post. I am Mormon and hav...I really appreciate this post. I am Mormon and have been having a major crisis of faith for a couple years now. It started, ironically, by reading LDS literature and conference talks. I found many contradicted each other on major points and that there was a pervasive element of shame present in these things. I found myself feeling depressed, unhappy, and confused about the things I read. That triggered what has become a massive inquiry into the gospel and the church (no, they are NOt the same things). I have been offended in many ways by leaders on the church but never considered leaving for that, although people tend to assume that if I have issues with the church that must be why. <br /><br />After much prayer and scripture study and reading and researching everything I can get my hands on, LDS published anti Mormon, and everything in between, I realized the LDS church does indeed have the makings of a cult. However, I have received answers to prayers. I don't understand everything, but I know the Book of Mormon is true. As far as everything else, I think it is a whole lot of the ideas of men passed off as the will of God. I am very disaffected with the church. I am no longer a blind believe in all I am taught, nor do I obey for the sake of obedience as I have always been taught to. I believe in God and I believe in Christ. I believe in the principles taught in the Book of Mormon. But enjoying a cup of tea is not going to keep me from heaven. How I treat others and involve Christ in my life is going to determine what happens now and in the next life. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-33144751262619498792012-09-28T08:15:39.232-05:002012-09-28T08:15:39.232-05:00Jeff, I really appreciate this post. I emailed you...Jeff, I really appreciate this post. I emailed you once, years ago, on some trivial question when I was still an active, believing Mormon. I'm an ex-Mormon now. I believe that if I am wrong and Heavenly Father as you believe in Him is real, He would understand my situation. If I discovered it to be true, even now, I would gladly return. Unfortunately, I am convinced that it cannot be true. I am happy to see that you understand that some of us leave because of our integrity. As a believer, and now as a non-believer, you were and still are my favorite LDS apologist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-88873762393778858612011-05-20T00:02:13.289-05:002011-05-20T00:02:13.289-05:00I am grateful for the ex-Mormons for Jesus. They i...I am grateful for the ex-Mormons for Jesus. They introduced my future wife to the LDS Church during a talk at a Baptist church. When she was in Dental School, she met members of the church in her class. She wondered why they were not bad people as she had been taught. So, she looked into the church and joined.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-39228246140879011962010-12-12T10:17:41.352-06:002010-12-12T10:17:41.352-06:00(continuing previous post)
3 Nephi 9:9 9 And beh...(continuing previous post)<br /><br />3 Nephi 9:9 9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:10 10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.<br />3 Nephi 9:11 11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:12 12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land, and upon this people, because of their wickedness and their abominations.<br /><br />3 Nephi 9:15 15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.<br /><br />By the way: There are several Anonymous's writing here, only one (me) is talking of 3 NephiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-77699078599785641102010-12-12T10:16:01.426-06:002010-12-12T10:16:01.426-06:00Bookslinger
Is this in your BoM (it will take 2 ...Bookslinger <br /><br />Is this in your BoM (it will take 2 posts to get the descruction all in)?<br /><br />3 Nephi 9:1 1 And it came to pass that there was a voice heard among all the inhabitants of the earth, upon all the face of this land, crying:<br />3 Nephi 9:2 2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!<br />3 Nephi 9:3 3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.<br />3 Nephi 9:4 4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.<br />3 Nephi 9:5 5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:6 6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;<br />3 Nephi 9:7 7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:8 8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them. (cont'd)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-87704597798145672442010-12-12T10:13:47.918-06:002010-12-12T10:13:47.918-06:00Bookslinger
Is this in your BoM?
3 Nephi 9:1 1...Bookslinger <br /><br />Is this in your BoM?<br /><br />3 Nephi 9:1 1 And it came to pass that there was a voice heard among all the inhabitants of the earth, upon all the face of this land, crying:<br />3 Nephi 9:2 2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!<br />3 Nephi 9:3 3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.<br />3 Nephi 9:4 4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.<br />3 Nephi 9:5 5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:6 6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;<br />3 Nephi 9:7 7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:8 8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:9 9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:10 10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.<br />3 Nephi 9:11 11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them.<br />3 Nephi 9:12 12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land, and upon this people, because of their wickedness and their abominations.<br /><br />3 Nephi 9:15 15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.<br /><br />By the way: There are several Anonymous's writing here, only one (me) is talking of 3 NephiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-16032154063650035742010-09-25T21:15:37.995-05:002010-09-25T21:15:37.995-05:00I will be linking to this post in the future, Jeff...I will be linking to this post in the future, Jeff - probably next year some time. I don't get much readership, since I don't try to do so, but I hope it gets a few more people here to read this post and your blog.Papa Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704974609266088416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-66225476814933663702010-06-23T09:13:56.660-05:002010-06-23T09:13:56.660-05:00Quite good. Thanks for this post.
You assume, ho...Quite good. Thanks for this post.<br /><br />You assume, however, that ex mormon automatically means anti mormon.<br /><br />This is not the case.<br />I see things differently from others on a number of topics but that does not infer hostility. I'm sure there are numerous former members who carry themselves in the same manner.<br /><br />I do however receive comments that "how can you unknow something you know", "sorry, my daughter cannot come to play with yours"... those are the things that irk me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24974687651919682002010-03-03T03:37:21.981-06:002010-03-03T03:37:21.981-06:00As a non practicing member with huge roots that go...As a non practicing member with huge roots that go back to the beginning era of the Church, I occasionally search for something that tells me I need to return to activity. I do not expect I would ever be anti. I really wish the Church were true. My paradigm of life/world changed about ten years ago. Mounting evidence I see supports my current path. To be sure, that same evidence would abolish belief in any other religion, too. In my view now the best candidate for a true religion would be the ancient Greeks' religion, under which culture the greatest gift to mankind was born, Democracy. (Mormons would be next just because Philo T Farnsworth gave us the next best invention, TV, LOL). Actually, I reached here following up an article in the Meridian Magazine regarding Book of Mormon geography and subsequently, DNA. The Book of Mormon defenders really have a lot of barrels through which to leap regarding DNA. Maybe they are right and DNA cannot be so cut and dry. But right now I am thinking how is it three separate migrations ended in the same neighborhood where there was no contention for the occupation of the land with the now supposed ubiquitous aborigines? Europeans only clashed. I miss my Lamanite brother from the schooling outside the territory program run by the Church. Oh, now he is just indigenous, my indigenous brother. That may seem to be anti but it is just to point out how things change and it becomes the member's fault and they were deluding themselves all along. I could go on and on and on. The article "cutting slack.." shows a genuine interest in avoiding anti anti and taking the higher ground and very comendable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-91357272254848952462009-12-29T15:51:09.570-06:002009-12-29T15:51:09.570-06:00We are here to learn. From God, from each other, a...We are here to learn. From God, from each other, about God and about each other. No one said the road would be an easy one and given that there are so many looking for answers, it is certainly not an easy road at all. That being said, sometimes all we can do is choose to be what we see as good or evil and let the rest fall as it may.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04282425108470872073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-55799963699187247652009-11-30T17:01:10.361-06:002009-11-30T17:01:10.361-06:00My own personal history with the LDS church is lon...My own personal history with the LDS church is long and multi-storied. I am not a member, never have been. Yet I am on my way to baptism in the church. Just need to quit smoking (lol, ... hell, I need to quit smoking that crap anyway because it's getting really expensive LOL). <br />Over 20 years ago two very close friends of mine in college converted to the LDS church. One was rather sudden and the other I watched grow from an major Anti-Mormon to one of the strongest members of his Ward. <br />I've missionary discussions several times so either way I know the church is true and all of that. <br />My own experience with anti-mormons have ranged from passive to extreme prejudice. Heard basically all the misconceptions of the LDS church. <br />The biggest one of course is the continuing practice of Polygamy which isn't so in the LDS church... there ARE those who claim they're LDS and practice Polygamy but they are not members of the church in any sense of the word. Usually if they're found-out they're excommunicated if they refuse to recant their ways and stop their lifestyle. <br />Either way, I've seen enough in the LDS church by living closely with single members (as room-mates) and families over a 15 year period. The ones that I know and have associated with are fine upstanding citizens of the U.S. and do their best to live the Gospel. But their negative human qualities come out and that just shows that they're just as human as the next faith. <br />I am currently engaged to a member of the church and promised her to join before we are married and promised her to seal each other in the temple soon afterwards when we're both worthy.<br />Several of my own family members are anti-mormons but I don't care. I'm not joining the church for THEM nor am I joining the church for my fiancee. I'm joining it for me.<br />I think that those who are anti-mormons need to lighten up and look at the other churches and see the hypocrisy that is just as evident there as anywhere else. Personally, I think people need to chill out altogether and worry about THEIR OWN salvation and not anyone else's. How, why one chooses to worship is between them and their God(s). It's supposed to be one of the great freedoms of this country... the other great freedom that we're SUPPOSED to have is freedom from persecution. This applies to the members of the LDS church and any other faith here. <br />Christ said judge not lest ye be judged.MA-Cavernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-32276659587902700322009-10-18T03:01:42.072-05:002009-10-18T03:01:42.072-05:00I am so glad I am quitting this CULT
joseph smith...I am so glad I am quitting this CULT<br /><br />joseph smith was a pedophile and a polygamist who deserved getting locked up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-70064976254438512402009-10-10T22:56:07.409-05:002009-10-10T22:56:07.409-05:00From the perspective of someone who almost Joined ...From the perspective of someone who almost Joined the Mormon church but decided not too, this was really refreshing to read. I get labeled "anti" a lot but I'm really not. This was very refreshing for me to stumble upon and really just made my day. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-57677374959422627782009-08-29T20:52:27.055-05:002009-08-29T20:52:27.055-05:00Thanks Jeff.
I appreciate this post. I'm dis...Thanks Jeff.<br /><br />I appreciate this post. I'm disaffected, and it is difficult to know how / where to fit in. It just feels good to have people acknowledge that there are serious, very serious issues that are difficult to reconcile. <br /><br />I wish there were an easy way to "hold to the rod" and stay believing. But, for me, there isn't. It takes too much for me to just shelve it.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BokawimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-68386270185656401822009-07-10T17:13:21.039-05:002009-07-10T17:13:21.039-05:00What is the "bargaining" stage like?What is the "bargaining" stage like?BHodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751807169882645742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-686685626221290062009-07-10T17:07:56.733-05:002009-07-10T17:07:56.733-05:00Being "anti" Mormon is just a phase for ...Being "anti" Mormon is just a phase for a lot of people who resign from the Mormon church.<br /><br />I was anti mormon at first because I had a lot of anger, due to the fact that I felt I was lied to (unintentionally) my whole childhood. I have a sister that I haven't communicated with in over 5 yrs because of arguments and conflicts we had.<br /><br />The stages of leaving can easily be compared to the stages of grief.<br /><br />1. Denial 2.Anger 3.Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance<br /><br />I'm now at the acceptance stage. I don't lash out at Mormonism like I once did. I think the same applies to a lot of ex-mormons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-28805210926428803942009-06-09T09:28:51.141-05:002009-06-09T09:28:51.141-05:00As Latter-day Saints, we believe that "if the...As Latter-day Saints, we believe that "if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". This is formal Church doctrine that implies that our Church doesn't hold a monopoly on all that's beautiful or even true. After all, if we have to seek after it, we must not already have it. Yes, even ex-Mormons have much that is praiseworthy and beautiful in their lives that Mormons should seek after. I know with all my heart that the Church is divinely inspired and yearn for others to have this knowledge. At the same time, I’ve found that there are many members with shallow roots and that it’s typically these same members that treat non-members with disdain and lack of respect. Many members just don't care that much about reaching deeper – in fact, they may not WANT to know. They treat the Church as more of a College fraternity than a group of humble disciples of Christ. But what can you do? The Church is there for them – perhaps even more so – than for the truly converted.Brian Moodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301350610526833894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-90857851607626358222009-05-10T22:31:00.000-05:002009-05-10T22:31:00.000-05:00C2M2C:
I advise keeping this in mind when talking...C2M2C:<br /><br />I advise keeping this in mind when talking to Mormons:<br /><br />"I think we may accept it as a rule that whenever a person's<br />religious conversation dwells chiefly, or even frequently,<br />on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition."<br />-C.S. Lewis (Collected Letters Vol. 3 p. 209).BHodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751807169882645742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-43353327781939217552009-05-10T21:58:00.000-05:002009-05-10T21:58:00.000-05:00Jeff,
After 18 years as a monthly temple attendi...Jeff,<br /><br /> After 18 years as a monthly temple attending, full tithe paying, attend every single meeting without question, Mormon, I too have left the church. I left because of what I found to be true elswhere (Catholocism). But one of the things I found is that, even though there are "anti Mormons", the intention of a lot of ex-Mormons is to share what they have learned. As Mormons we are taught to spread the gospel, and once we find out that it's not true, we want to share that too. The more I learned, the more I wanted tell people, and share what I'd learned. But not many people were interested and I found that most people are blissfully ignorant and prefer to stay that way. But after studying as much as I have, including things that you've written, I've learned that for most people, the best we can hope for is to agree to disagree. <br /><br /> You're not going to change my mind and I assume that you won't be swayed either. So it is what it is; we move on. <br /><br /> The point of your post is appreciated though. Mormons do have a persecution complex, so it's nice to see someone realize and acknowledge that we're not here trying to tell you how stupid you are for believing what you do, or point out other peculiar, obscure, rarely known doctrine that the LDS masses are generally unaware of, in an attempt to rub it in your face or in hopes that you will leave in droves. <br /><br /> I know your not stupid. I live in a stake that has several GA's among other high profile members who are well know for their successes outside of the church. Those people aren't stupid either, and I would say generally exponentialy smarter than I and yet they have somehow come to the opposite conclusion that I have.<br /><br /> We're trying to do what we feel is right also. As a good Catholic I feel that I too need to spread the gospel, and if that means having discussions with Mormons about what I've learned, then thats what I'll do. Your free to take it or leave it.<br /><br />Thanks JeffC2M2Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-61555991983563825332009-03-31T23:54:00.000-05:002009-03-31T23:54:00.000-05:00Finally a mormon who gets it. Good job Jeff. A m...Finally a mormon who gets it. Good job Jeff. A message your people really need to take to heart. I have seen so many ex mormons shunned by their own family simply because they don't believe. That sickens me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29917183166305403512009-03-28T20:49:00.000-05:002009-03-28T20:49:00.000-05:00Jeff, your post was in very good taste, well writt...Jeff, your post was in very good taste, well written, and your intent Christlike.<BR/><BR/>The comments that follow it however are downright depressing. It's heartbreaking to see so many who have lost their way coming out of the woodwork to proclaim how wonderful it is that they have given up the Gospel of Christ.<BR/><BR/>Maybe it would be in good taste to remove comments and commenting ability from this post. It detracts greatly from the spirit of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-82277357091151808942009-02-25T13:49:00.000-06:002009-02-25T13:49:00.000-06:00I agree with this post. One thing that people ten...I agree with this post. One thing that people tend to do quite a bit is generalize. It's offensive to say that most people quit because their feelings were hurt. It's offensive to consider every inquiry and every criticism as "Anti" and must thus be treated with hostility or dismissed. A lot of criticisms have a good basis to them, and many honest members themselves could ask the same things. How they accept or deal with these things, however, is where we differ in most instances.<BR/>In defense of Elder Bednar; he's been around for quite a while and he's a general authority who probably knows of so many people who leave because they HAVE been offended. There are a lot. I spoke to many on my mission in Pennsylvania. It's not the case for all, but it's the case for many, and he felt the need to call them to repentance. You can't fault him for that.Lamdaddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550528525997628134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-89561812454420578102009-02-04T12:48:00.000-06:002009-02-04T12:48:00.000-06:00As an ex-Mormon myself, I was impressed by your po...As an ex-Mormon myself, I was impressed by your post. You show compassion, understanding, and empathy. Unfortunately, even as evident by other comments in this blog, this is not common among those who regard ex-Mormons.<BR/><BR/>Keep doing what you're doing. While I'm not ever going to re-join the church, the reputation of the church goes up in my eyes when I read about people like you.<BR/><BR/>Jesus (if he existed) would be proud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-25096162096242130362009-01-12T21:59:00.000-06:002009-01-12T21:59:00.000-06:00Hi Jeff, looks like the LDS apostle of our Lord Je...Hi Jeff, looks like the LDS apostle of our Lord Jesus, Elder Robert D. Hales has a word or two to say on the topic of your post - identical to yours (almost - wording is different) - and is online in varied forms as part of the October 2008 world-wide Church Conference. Maybe you'd like to provide a link or two so viewers can see that your sentiments aren't just "christian" or "Jeff" or of an "isolated Mormon" but LDS Christian - official LDS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-3928592724839288442008-12-24T17:45:00.000-06:002008-12-24T17:45:00.000-06:00Great post, even if I am 2 years late or whatever....Great post, even if I am 2 years late or whatever. <BR/><BR/>People may be interested to look into the usage of the phrase "people leave the Church but can't leave it alone." I did a post on it here:<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/8u3y9dBHodgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751807169882645742noreply@blogger.com