tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post2165646420945909591..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: I Figured Out the Problem! They're Disbelieving in a Different Book of Mormon!Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-64548287285948292752007-07-28T17:23:00.000-05:002007-07-28T17:23:00.000-05:00Too good!Too good!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-52346351548076466562007-07-13T02:02:00.000-05:002007-07-13T02:02:00.000-05:00It is the small and simple things that speaks volu...It is the small and simple things that speaks volumes to my heart. I appreciate all of the loving and kind words directed towards d360, I do not know him, but he is my brother as are all of you. (maybe some sisters out there too?) The tone on this blog site is much different then the one on other sites I have been to. <BR/><BR/>"Stand Ye in Holy Places" comes to mind. When people are kind and loving I can appreciate it and feel it. Yes, even on a blog!bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091655088509351675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-5858192505758269022007-07-13T00:35:00.000-05:002007-07-13T00:35:00.000-05:00wow, you guys are so wonderful. I cannot adequate...wow, you guys are so wonderful. I cannot adequately convey how much the encouragement means. Thank you for your prayers - it is my ferverent hope and prayer that my wife will be blessed with a testimony of the Gospel. I feel so fortunate to live in a time when we can communicate so easily no matter where we are located. <BR/><BR/>For me it kind of puts a perspective on the epistles in the New Testament, where Paul and the apostles/disciples were running all over the place just trying to keep the church together under persecution. if they only had the Internet and satalite TV (for Generral Conference of course) :) - and Jeff's FAQ website - to keep teaching the saints and encouraging one another in the faith.<BR/><BR/>Guess that's one of the reason's the restoration took place when it did... <BR/><BR/>Thank you for the reading references and I will definately check them out - I cannot get enough.... oh and I got the author's name wrong... it's Tad R. Callister - great book about the Atonement.D360https://www.blogger.com/profile/13784611464020900199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-65737127811779478072007-07-12T21:09:00.000-05:002007-07-12T21:09:00.000-05:00D360 - Thank you for the kind words and for your f...D360 - Thank you for the kind words and for your faith. I think you are setting a great example of patience, faith, love, and tolerance in a complex situation. You are right to love your wife and be respectful and patient. These human relationships are so important - it's so much of what life is all about. I can't help but sense that the religious differences will be smoothed out more easily than we might think later on in the Lord's plan. Keep up the great work and continue to make it a great marriage and family. And be grateful for the faith in Christ that your wife has!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-18684419750655676542007-07-12T16:05:00.000-05:002007-07-12T16:05:00.000-05:00D360--I believe you're in the prayers of many peop...D360--I believe you're in the prayers of many people at this time, mine included. I feel like I must suggest to you a wonderful article in Meridian Magazine. If you're not familiar with MM, it's at ldsmag.com. Entitled "Safety in the Lord's Hands," the article is located almost halfway down the page, right hand column next to the purple news column. It's been such a huge blessing to me already. <BR/>The part that was particularly dignificant to me begins at "Putting Ourselves on the Altar." It gave me insights that helped me immensely, and I do hope they will do so for you as well. Blessings and best wishes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-51873943605872033172007-07-12T13:14:00.000-05:002007-07-12T13:14:00.000-05:00Book, Shawn,I really appreciate it and I am always...Book, Shawn,<BR/><BR/>I really appreciate it and I am always open any input in the hopes that some small gem or small inspiration might come forward. Book I really gotta say that you are exactly right about the Evangelicals and their conviction – so many times I find myself shying away from it though because it is a fervor that when directed against our beliefs can sometimes, and I’ll just speak for myself, sting pretty good. I think that I take it a little more personally than I should only because it’s double hard when it comes from your own spouse – I am really trying to work on that and I am getting a little better but I got a ways to go.<BR/><BR/>I will also say that it was when she literally had to drag me to church with her some 3 or so years ago that I did notice how similar the message was. I fought that pretty hard too – I wanted nothing to do with any of it. But then I started to listen and that caused reflection on my part, or I dare say a softening in my heart to where I could listen and feel/hear that familiar voice from long ago. So for that I owe much to her persistence in that area.<BR/><BR/>Most of the stuff she likes to bring up is the common out-of-context quotes that are circulated among the anti circle, by Brigham Young and other 19th century leaders of the church. It’s more or less the same old stuff of you think that Jesus and satan are brothers and that “God and Mary had sex” so therefore its not the same Jesus. <BR/><BR/>In regards to the kids, I really keep it simple, just read to them out of the Bible and am teaching them to pray (youngest is 7). I will also say there has been significant progress where we are now from where we were when I first told her that I wanted to go back to church … now she is even willing to iron my shirts for church – I tell ya its those little things that mean so much especially given some of the past problems. <BR/><BR/>But there still is that tension and its almost kinda morphed into a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ situation but I hope given time that too will change. I will say this though, the more I have tried to fill, and (maybe more importantly) allow my heart to be filled with charity, love and service and then act on those things – despite how I perceive any contention directed my way – the better able I am able to cope with it and the conflicts that do arise seem to be resolved much quicker. I think that goes right into what Book was saying as quoted by Shawn. <BR/><BR/>Book I have to say in reading your “tone” and comparing it to reading my “tone” I realize how far I have yet to go – that I still have much ‘murmuring’ inside… thanks for the example, I am still trying but it sometimes is not easy erasing years of rebellion and bad living.<BR/><BR/>It truly does show the Wisdom of the Lord though that as I earnestly try to apply Christ’s teachings and let the Atonement work in my life, although not always easy, does tangibly demonstrate and bears witness to me that it is through Him that we can endure and He does lift us up through having the faith in Him to live as He has both spoken and shown, that “His burden is light”. <BR/><BR/>I have such a long way to go but for the first time in a long time, I am happy and have profound gratitude to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – so much that I get a little impatient for want of having my family to be able to have these blessings as well. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the book recommendation I will definitely pick it up. Another book that has been very uplifting is titled “The Infinite Atonement” by Tad McAllister. <BR/><BR/>Thank you both and I appreciate the insight and the conversation.<BR/><BR/>Jeff, <BR/><BR/>Thank you for all of the work you have put into your FAQ site, it has been invaluable especially when the Anti stuff was more frequently directed my way. I have read this blog for quite some time and have very much enjoyed the conversations, so thank you for keeping this going as well… It is very helpful in this journey and I sincerely thank you for all of your work.D360https://www.blogger.com/profile/13784611464020900199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-15995302988295373812007-07-12T09:56:00.000-05:002007-07-12T09:56:00.000-05:00(for ease of reference) Bookslinger said: "The se...(for ease of reference) <BR/><BR/>Bookslinger said: <BR/><BR/>"The second part is more important because I had control over that. We can't control what others do, but we do have power to do what it takes to obtain and maintain companionship with the Spirit of the Lord (Holy Ghost)."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-55516602774390856202007-07-12T09:52:00.000-05:002007-07-12T09:52:00.000-05:00Hi D360!You're in my prayers. It's not my place t...Hi D360!<BR/><BR/>You're in my prayers. <BR/><BR/>It's not my place to offer advise so I hope you are not offended by it, but I caution you in regards to teaching your children without your wife's consent. Children, especially these days, need the life saving lessons of Christ. But, she could end up holding it against you, no matter how just and honorable your intentions are... :(<BR/><BR/>I hope someday you will be able to talk to your wife about the things that are important to you. Bookslinger'a comments on the "second part" is, IMHO, is a wonderful pearl of wisdom. Especially if your wife's refusal to discuss religion causes you pain. Christ can help us endure many things.<BR/><BR/>I'd highly recommend a book called "The Peacegiver" if you have some time.<BR/><BR/>Peace and love, my brother.<BR/>-ShawnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-25972687600744388872007-07-12T09:19:00.000-05:002007-07-12T09:19:00.000-05:00D360, I think she owes it to you to specifically ...D360, I think she owes it to you to specifically point out, in our LDS literature, what it is that she believes is wrong, not quoting her church's version of what LDS believe, but going directly to the Gospel Principles manual.<BR/><BR/>As your wife, she needs to know what you believe, "even if it's wrong". I think the card to play is "Honey, you need to understand what I personally believe, even if you don't agree with me, just like I want to understand what you believe, even if I don't agree with your church."<BR/><BR/>Another angle might be, "Okay, don't pray with me, just listen while I pray. And I'll listen while you pray."<BR/><BR/>I'm having a hard time conceiving that she won't even pray with you. Wow. That's hard-core.<BR/><BR/>Some day she'll realize that the wolves in sheep clothing are the anti-mormons who knowingly spread false information. <BR/><BR/>Rank-and-file members and even most local pastors of evangelical/pentecostal churches just don't realize that the anti-mormon teachings they pass along are deliberate lies made up by those who wrote that material. The rank-and-file and local pastors have implicit trust in those "experts," so it's not the locals' fault.<BR/><BR/>As demonstrated by many visitors to this blog, the professional antis have planted misrepresentations of what we believe in the minds of members of those other churches.<BR/><BR/>The battle of ideas isn't about "fixing" what the evangelicals/pentecostals believe about the Bible, because they are pretty close already. The "fix" needs to correct their perceptions of what Mormons believe.<BR/><BR/>My belief is that when a pentecostal/evangelical comes to a correct understanding of what exactly it is that Mormons believe, and how it is closely aligned to 1st and 2nd century Christianity (as Jeff likes to point out), and how we link our beliefs to the Bible, then they will be a staunch ally, if not an eventual convert.<BR/><BR/>There are several things that I greatly admire about most Evangelicals/Pentecostals/Fundamentalists:<BR/><BR/>1. They are usually very zealous for the Lord. They're not ashamed of being "on the Lord's side." <BR/><BR/>2. Many of them, even rank and file members, are not afraid to "witness" and share what they believe. Do we always stand up for what we believe, and let others know about it whenever and wherever it's appropriate?<BR/><BR/>3. They are usually courageous to take a stand. Look at the courage of the Jerry Falwells and Pat Buchanans to stand up publicly to the wickedness in our popular culture. You just have to admire someone who's not afraid to say the words "God" and "Jesus Christ", and say "This is what's right, this is what's wrong" in public and in front of all sorts of non-believers! <BR/><BR/>4. They are not afraid of being mocked by the world and going against the world to maintain their belief in Christ and his standards.<BR/><BR/>5. And as that one pastor demonstrated to me in that friend's Sunday School class, many _do_ know about the Holy Ghost, and many of them _have_ received of the Spirit to lead them in their lives. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, they _have_ the key that unlocks truth, they just need to find the right door, insert the key, turn it, and voila', they'll recognize the restored gospel. But so many of them have been deceived about what's behind our door, and they've been "warned off" so that they'll never try it. They'll never "try" their Holy Ghost key in our door.<BR/><BR/>Some members of other churchs have received such immense blessings from following the parts of the Gospel that they have, that they can't conceive that there are even more blessings and "more Gospel" behind other doors. Their cup runneth over so much, that they can't conceive of getting a bigger cup.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-142935048723279792007-07-12T00:44:00.000-05:002007-07-12T00:44:00.000-05:00do want to clarify one thing however, I know that ...do want to clarify one thing however, I know that it sounds like a lot of complaining - but I do not want to give the impression that I am bashing my own wife. I love her dearly and she is a wonderful companion and mother, which just makes it that much harder to hear all of the "anti" stuff that she has some how been twisted up with... anyway I think this is where some of the long-suffering and meekness that the Savior wants us to learn and practice might come into play :)<BR/><BR/>I do appreciate being able to vent some of these feelings however and I really appreciate your insight Book, especially when you invite someone to be critical of something you hold very dear - to me that speaks volumes about humility.D360https://www.blogger.com/profile/13784611464020900199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67942133131904521152007-07-12T00:23:00.000-05:002007-07-12T00:23:00.000-05:00if only, right now I can't even get her to pray wi...if only, right now I can't even get her to pray with me, she more or less says since we don't believe in the same God / same Jesus she won't be praying with me.<BR/><BR/>I bought a book called "how wide the divide: a Mormon and an Evangelical in discussion" by Stephen Robinson and Craig Blomberg which was circulated by a Christian press company and I know that she has read some of Blomberg's work before but she only responded by saying she would not read any propoganda put out by the Church. tried explaining that it was not to no avail...<BR/><BR/>Right now I read to the kids on my own and have prayer with them - not sure if she knows I do that as it is usually a bed time routine that I have with the kids alone. <BR/><BR/>I go with her and the kids to her church every Sunday that she decides to go and then I go to my ward in the afternoon (fortunately the times don't clash right now) <BR/><BR/>Maybe it was unfair to lump the "Born Again" title with the negativity I am experiancing at home but sometimes its hard for me to separate the two.<BR/><BR/>but I guess my struggle is is that right now she will not even hear any part of it - and will not talk religion with me... because I belong to a "phony works based religion". I have also tried to point out how similar we are in many respects but the response is usually that I am trying to deceive or I have been deceived in trying to make the LDS church look Christian when it is the "wolf in sheeps clothing" that the bible warns about....<BR/><BR/>don't mean to complain so much but one thing I do know is that I will never turn my back on the Gospel of Jesus Christ ever again. sometimes I think this is gonna take a saul to paul road to damascus type of miracle.D360https://www.blogger.com/profile/13784611464020900199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-61142857748488403172007-07-11T22:47:00.000-05:002007-07-11T22:47:00.000-05:00Anon at 8:08 pm,Actually, you're wife being born-a...Anon at 8:08 pm,<BR/><BR/>Actually, you're wife being born-again or Evangelical or Pentecostal works to her and your advantage. <BR/><BR/>We have a LOT in common with them, especially in our view of how the Holy Ghost operates intimately with us in our daily lives.<BR/><BR/>I once attended a friend's Korean church, which is pretty evangelical oriented. They had a men's Sunday School class in English, and they invited (hired?) an English-speaking American pastor to teach it. What he taught was about 98.5% LDS, especially when it came to "walking by the Spirit."<BR/><BR/>You see, Evangelical/Pentecostal faiths DIFFER from the bland "mainstream" Protestant denominations, because the latter pretty much deny that the Holy Ghost is a personal and revelatory force in our lives.<BR/><BR/><I>_Personal and continuous revelation_</I> for _everybody_ who believes in Christ is something that LDS and Pentecostals/Evangelicals have in common that almost NONE of the other mainstream denominations have!<BR/><BR/>Go over Chapter 7 and 21 of Gospel Fundamentals with your wife, asking her where LDS and her church disagree. There won't be much.<BR/><BR/>And on the parts where she agrees, use those parts to teach your children.<BR/><BR/>Build on what you have in common with her, and let it go from there.<BR/><BR/>When she feels the power of the Holy Ghost as you lead the family in prayer, or when you read from the Bible, or when you bless the children, she's going to recognize that Holy Ghost feeling. Assuming she has felt the Holy Ghost in her church. Anyways, all honest God-seeking people can feel the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>Reading from the Bible daily as a family will also cement your children in the gospel, and allow opportunities for her to see that the Holy Ghost is with you, too.<BR/><BR/>Another possibility is for you to go to her church once a month, and for her (and the kids) to go to your church once a month. Promote it as an idea of family unity, inclusiveness, etc. Tell her she's free to point out all the things we do wrong when you get back home.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-40871262571487378822007-07-11T22:08:00.000-05:002007-07-11T22:08:00.000-05:00Book, Thanks for sharing your story with NM and th...Book, <BR/>Thanks for sharing your story with NM and thereby the rest of us who read the blogs. I became inactive when I should have gone on my mission. 34 now and am just now coming back to activity - the thing that has been hard is that during my inactivity I married a wonderful woman who unfortunately is of the born again set, and I only say unfortunately because she is vehemently opposed to the LDS church that seems to be so prevelant among the born again community. The painful side affect of this is that she absolutely refuses to allow our children any exposure to the church - that really hurts.<BR/><BR/>at any rate I totally relate to what you said about willfully leading a 'recreant' life but that can never change what we "know" and I too felt the familiar callings and am now treading that thorny path back to where I absolutely KNOW I should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-57481425883765480542007-07-11T21:20:00.000-05:002007-07-11T21:20:00.000-05:00NM wrote: So, according to LDS doctrine, do you lo...NM wrote: <I>So, according to LDS doctrine, do you lose the Holy Spirit when you leave the church?</I><BR/><BR/>One loses the companionship of the Holy Spirit, at least to a degree, as soon as one knowingly sins. The Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) then usually withdraws even further if we knowingly avoid repenting of that sin.<BR/><BR/>Repentance and the Lord's forgiveness then allow the Holy Ghost to get closer, and the person may then feel unburdened of that sin. Forgiveness is through Christ's Atonement, and his grace. <BR/><BR/>Repentance is not a "work" along the lines of Mosaic law. Repentance doesn't "earn" us forgiveness. <BR/><BR/>But repentance is what brings us to the place where we can be washed in the Lamb's blood, to use one of Paul's popular phrases.<BR/><BR/>Some other faiths define the word "repentance" differently than Mormons do, so I'll define the term as I know it.<BR/><BR/>Mormons teach there are 5 general steps to repentance: 1) recognize that we have sinned, 2) feel regret/sorrow for the sin, 3) confession, 4) restitution, 5) forsake the sin.<BR/><BR/>There is a spiritual gift that members of the LDS church receive right after they are baptized. That is called "The <I>Gift</I> of the Holy Ghost". It is the right to have the <I>constant</I> companionship of the Holy Ghost, as long as one remains worthy (by striving to keep the commandments and repenting of ones sins, maintaining humility, etc).<BR/><BR/>When one is excommunicated or has their name removed, then they officially lose that gift or right.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b3bc55cbf541229058520974e44916a0/?vgnextoid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=f7ca7befabc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0" REL="nofollow">What Mormons believe about The Holy Ghost is discussed in chapter 7 of Gospel Principles.</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b3bc55cbf541229058520974e44916a0/?vgnextoid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=835b7befabc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0" REL="nofollow">The <I>Gift</I> of the Holy Ghost is discussed in Chapter 21 of Gospel Principles</A>.<BR/><BR/><I>If so and with the fact that you are awaiting re-baptism. Does that mean that you are still waiting to re-receive the Holy Spirit?</I><BR/><BR/>At points in time over the past few years, I have felt the Holy Ghost comfort me and guide me. But I do miss the constant companionship. I have felt the Holy Ghost and heard/felt his whisperings _at times_, but I realize I do not have the "Gift of the Holy Ghost", nor his constant companionship.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-46254109074110801682007-07-11T15:24:00.000-05:002007-07-11T15:24:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-58118721998300511682007-07-11T13:09:00.000-05:002007-07-11T13:09:00.000-05:00Nat wrote: I'm interested maybe in how you got dis...Nat wrote: <I>I'm interested maybe in how you got disaffected,</I><BR/><BR/>I say disaffected in the sense of being offended and hurt, getting fed up, and just deciding not to show up any more. <BR/><BR/>There are two sides to that. <BR/><BR/>One, is that in any social group, there is going to be friction. There were some people who kept hurting me and wouldn't leave me alone, others were just being offensive, and others were just dumping extra work on me using the excuse that I was unmarried, therefore I must have had the time to do all that stuff. (Some Mormons are prejudiced against singles. Though I've noticed the church has made improvements in that regard. )<BR/><BR/>But the second part, and actually more important, is that I had lost the Spirit. I had lost the armor or insulation that protects us from being hurt by the normal offenses and friction that goes on. In other words, without the Spirit, all the little offenses get magnified and become unbearable.<BR/><BR/>The second part is more important because I had control over that. We can't control what others do, but we do have power to do what it takes to obtain and maintain companionship with the Spirit of the Lord (Holy Ghost).<BR/><BR/>So even though I pointed the finger at others back then (and sometimes still do) the bottom line is that I sinned and didn't want to repent.<BR/><BR/><I> how it is that you renounced your membership etc. </I><BR/><BR/>I stopped attending church in 1987. Then in 1991 I wrote a letter requesting that my name be taken off the church records. It is also called "name removal." <BR/><BR/><I>When you renounced your membership, did you also, at the time, renounce your faith altogether (and not just your membership)? </I><BR/><BR/>I made no formal written or verbal statements renouncing my faith, but I gradually went back to living as I did before I joined the church. (Like Paul said, a dog returns to his vomit.) So by my actions, yes. <BR/><BR/>I purposely avoided discussing religion, and made a point not to mention the Mormons, either positively or negatively.<BR/><BR/>You may not understand this, but the other LDS following the discussion will. I stopped believing what I _believed_, but I didn't and couldn't stop knowing what I _knew_. In other words, the four foundational testimonies that I had stayed with me. I mostly ignored them, but they were still in me: knowing that 1) God lives, 2) Jesus is the Christ/Savior, 3) the Bible and Book of Mormon are true, 4) Joseph Smith was a prophet who saw God and Jesus.<BR/><BR/>So I still _knew_ that the LDS church was God's "official" church, but I just couldn't stand those dang Mormons. And, I wanted to sin, and didn't want to repent. So it was like "Yeah, I know you're there, God. Now just leave me alone."<BR/><BR/><I>Also, you said something about being re-baptised? Why do you have to be re-baptised?</I><BR/><BR/>Baptism is the doorway to membership. So once you return to NON-member status by becoming an ex-member, it would be necessary to re-do that ordinance/covenant. <BR/><BR/><I>Is the act of baptism for to attend church activities? </I><BR/><BR/>No. Just about all activities outside the temple are open to the public. Non-members, members, and ex-members are invited to everything. There's a specific verse in one section in the Doctrine and Covenants about allowing non-members in. I can go any place where, say, missionaries could take their investigators: Sunday meetings, dinners, picnics, parties, dances, conferences.<BR/><BR/>They even let me help out cleaning the chapel, and help people load/unload their moving trucks. :-) I've visited a few people in the hospital, and they didn't seem to care that I was an ex-mormon.<BR/><BR/><I>I guess I just don't understand why this is necessary...Is it part of LDS constitution to be baptised first? </I><BR/><BR/>To become an official member, yes. As the Lord plainly outlined in all the scriptures (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants), a properly performed baptism by someone who holds the authority to do so is necessary to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. After baptism, then the person has hands laid upon their head, again by someone who has the authority, and is "confirmed" a member of the church, and is given the "Gift of the Holy Ghost."Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-9232665837403523552007-07-10T01:08:00.000-05:002007-07-10T01:08:00.000-05:00In that day Christ does not present before men the...In that day Christ does not present before men the great work He has done for them in giving His life for their redemption. He presents the faithful work they have done for Him. To those whom He sets upon His right hand He will say, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungered, and ye gave Me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took Me in: naked, and ye clothed Me: I was sick, and ye visited Me: I was in prison, and ye came unto Me." But those whom Christ commends know not that they have been ministering unto Him. To their perplexed inquiries He answers, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me." Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness; before the words of life had fallen upon their ears, they have befriended the missionaries, even ministering to them at the peril of their own lives. Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-87849534842458961422007-07-09T15:16:00.000-05:002007-07-09T15:16:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-1960327269964842322007-07-09T15:15:00.000-05:002007-07-09T15:15:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-44953319688583200452007-07-09T10:49:00.000-05:002007-07-09T10:49:00.000-05:00er, that's www.JeffLindsay.comer, that's <A HREF="http://www.JeffLindsay.com/" REL="nofollow">www.JeffLindsay.com</A>Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-75605786052120307862007-07-09T06:42:00.000-05:002007-07-09T06:42:00.000-05:00Nat, Mormons are actually very close to what you b...Nat, Mormons are actually very close to what you believe about Christ's atonement, and what evangelicals believe about Christ's atonement in case you're not an evangelical. I haven't figured out exactly what denomination or branch you're in, and if it has a label.<BR/><BR/>We all seem to believe that Christ died for our sins. And that he was the Promised Messiah, and the Son of God.<BR/><BR/>We all (You, Evangelicals, Mormons) all believe we should keep Christ's commandments as given in the Bible.<BR/><BR/>I think it's a difference without a distinction to quibble about internal motivations to keep commandments, and what are the expected results of commandment-keeping. The good Mormons who I know feel motivated to keep the commandments in the Bible, just like the good Baptists/Catholics/etc who I know.<BR/><BR/>The bottom line is that Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses all believe that we should keep the 10 commandments and the "Two greatest commandments".<BR/><BR/>I've read some of your blogs, and it seems you are very sincere in your desire to follow Christ. And I admire that.<BR/><BR/>I think it's good of you to share with others what you believe about Christ, and to share <I>how</I> you are following Christ.<BR/><BR/>My meager half-hearted attempts to follow Christ consist mainly of going to church on Sunday, praying daily, reading the scriptures (mostly) daily, and giving away free copies of the Bible and Book of Mormon to people I meet.<BR/><BR/>If you want to find out how various denominations/religions/etc are following Christ, or what they believe, that is good too.<BR/><BR/>Jeff (Mormanity) and others here have often been falsely accused in regards to what Mormons believe. People of other Christian faiths, sometimes come to this blog saying "You believe this, you don't believe that" and those accusations often contain falsehoods.<BR/><BR/>Jeff, has another web site, www.jefflinday.com, where he tries to set the record straight about what most mainstream Mormons believe.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-35421989319694315282007-07-08T18:17:00.000-05:002007-07-08T18:17:00.000-05:00Nat, out of curiosity, don't you also accept and u...Nat, out of curiosity, don't you also accept and use at least some of the creeds? Or do you reject them as representing anything authoritative or canonical? <BR/><BR/>And which Bible do you use? If you or other Christians are using a canon that contains additional books in your Bible relative to earlier canons of historical Christianity, would that be a problem?<BR/><BR/>These are not especially friendly questions, I suppose, given their potential trick nature, but there may be some instructive points for discussion -- after you've chosen which corner you wish to back into. ;)Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-70555860943112100942007-07-08T14:14:00.000-05:002007-07-08T14:14:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-90627587172231164542007-07-08T13:27:00.000-05:002007-07-08T13:27:00.000-05:00Excuse me Nat, but just what do you mean in claimi...Excuse me Nat, but just what do you mean in claiming that you are Biblical and Latter-day Saints are not? Seems to me that your problems with us are based on our failure to accept post-Biblical creeds using language and concepts remote from anything in the Bible, and out failure to accept the particular doctrinal developments from 16th-century Northern Europe.<BR/><BR/>We accept and use the Bible, and feel that our doctrines are much closer to the Bible than our modern competitors. So what do you mean in calling us unbiblical? Is that another way of saying that you don't interpret some passages the same way we do?Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-18935357121230452812007-07-08T10:35:00.000-05:002007-07-08T10:35:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.com