tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post4172673476161580623..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: A Mormon Conspiracy?Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-7826755073236826422008-02-06T03:01:00.000-06:002008-02-06T03:01:00.000-06:00"Mormonism has so many holes."No they don't. Where..."Mormonism has so many holes."<BR/><BR/>No they don't. Where?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-27089906628664356752008-02-05T17:49:00.000-06:002008-02-05T17:49:00.000-06:00I was born into the mormon church and taught every...I was born into the mormon church and taught everything there is to know about mormonism. With that I am sure that the mormon church is not the only true church in this world. Joseph Smith did not see God. How is it that so many smart people are easily duped into believing this madness? Mormonism has so many holes, too many to list. C'mon people use your heads please!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-12508267327841409622008-02-05T15:12:00.000-06:002008-02-05T15:12:00.000-06:00Terrano4x4,The question of Paul and his preconcept...Terrano4x4,<BR/><BR/>The question of Paul and his preconceptions presents difficulties for me for a few reasons. His writings make up the bulk of the New Testament and are the basis for much of what we consider Christian doctrine today. In other words, the worldview of Paul had a strong influence on the future of Christianity. Now, whether that worldview was 100% dictated by God or if there were some remnants of Paul’s own opinions based on former experiences may be debated. I do believe the Bible, including Paul’s doctrinal writings, to be scripture inspired by God, but written down by humans in their own language. But, there are obviously some parts of Paul’s letters that weren’t inspired and were not written to portray any heavenly inspiration (as when he asks Timothy to bring his cloke in 2 Timothy 4:13). There are also some counsels of Paul regarding marriage (1 Cor. 7) and the role of women (1 Cor. 11) for which we are either missing the context or which most of Christianity largely ignores and may just be the opinion of Paul.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I believe apostles to be entitled to revelation and their role is to keep the doctrine pure. But they are also imperfect men and I put no label of infallibility on them. They have disagreements among themselves from time to time as witnessed by the argument between Peter and Paul, because they are still entitled to their own opinions and are not always speaking prophetically.<BR/><BR/>We, as Christians, have an ideal of giving our will over to God and responding to the prompting of His Spirit, as you have said. But I don’t think any of us does that perfectly. I don’t believe that we are asked to be a puppet either, but to bring our will into harmony with God’s will by our own choices. By doing so, we will see the beautiful thing our life becomes.<BR/><BR/>Your citation of Daniel’s prophecies is interesting. Combining the numerology in Daniel and Revelations, I have seen a number of different interpretations. I think your citing of the 70 weeks prophecy has a fairly standard interpretation though, with which I agree (although the mortal ministry of Christ lasted only 3 years, not 3 1/2 – just enough time to go through the whole law and the prophets – but that was still in the “midst of the week”).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-65591070858563034142008-02-04T13:10:00.000-06:002008-02-04T13:10:00.000-06:00Dear Dave D,I guessed that you may still beg to di...Dear Dave D,<BR/><BR/>I guessed that you may still beg to differ. I can accept your viewpoint, even though I see it slightly differently.<BR/><BR/>I was wondering if you could highlight for me any instances where Paul has written with any pre-conceived ideas or ideals in any of his NT writings, to support your standpoint? The reason that I selected Paul is that he had a complete u-turn from his phariseeical background to one of following Jesus.<BR/><BR/>The example of Paul, Peter and the subject of circuscision that you provide is intriguing, especially as this is one key evidence of the importance of 'ceremonial law' for the early church and why this needs to be completely separated from the unchangable 10 Commandment 'Eternal / Royal law'. The ceremonial law is the one that was 'nailed to the cross' , whereas the 10 Commandment law still stands effective today.<BR/><BR/>If you read into the prophecies of Daniel, especially ch 9:27 you will notice that this Messianic prophecy points specifically to the baptism, ministry and ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. But the verse talks about 1 week, which in the day for a year principal, means that Jesus would have been cut off after 3.5 days (midst of the week) or 3.5 years in realistic time. This prophecy was spot on in terms of accuracy. Well what about the remaining 3.5 years that equate for the second half of the prophetic week ? Well, this relates to the time where the gospel was intended to be preached to the Jews exclusively and this time period also finished fairly accurately with the stoning of Stephen. <BR/><BR/>This was the launchpad for the official rejection of the message by the Jewish authorities and subsequent release of the Gospel to the Gentiles. This is how Paul was correctly led by the Spirit in terms of understanding this calling.<BR/><BR/><I>If they were emptied of their own ideas, would they not become puppets?</I> Good question - although the answer is to be found again in the Spirit. As Christians we desire to be like Jesus. We have no desire to be Jesus, question or experience his position, title and authority in the Godhead. BUT, we want to assume His character for ourselves. This is only possible if we allow the Spirit to lead. Do we learn of our own conscience - or does the Spirit lead and we follow ?<BR/><BR/>God does not dictate or coerce us in any way - all choices are of our own accord. This is our free-will. The Spirit prompts us to follow His divine calling. We then respond - or go the other way. We can do that , but the Spirit never gives up on us until we absolutely refuse to come to repentance against our substituted desire to sin. This is defined as 'blasphemy against the Holy Spirit' and leads to the unpardonable sin.<BR/><BR/>Such a choice is attributable to all our lives and will form a major part of who we decide to be. Robots we aren't, but we will choose whose side we prefer to listen to and camp. Jesus or satan. There is no in-between.<BR/><BR/>Kind regards,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-80886041020447142008-02-02T23:53:00.000-06:002008-02-02T23:53:00.000-06:00I found this very insightful. Over on a political...I found this very insightful. Over on a political blog some folk were attacking Romney on the basis of him being Mormon. One poster responded:<BR/><BR/>"Note to the idiots who are continuing to attack Romney with his religious beliefs. Your motives are transparent. I could take on any religion, including your own, and show you all kinds of strange beliefs that would make you look stupid in front of others. Ease up you myopic automatons. <B>You’re attitude isn’t very much like the man you claim as your savior. Instead you look more like the snobby pharisees who didn’t care much for Christ.</B>"<BR/><BR/>Amen to that! Even if you don't think Romney is a great candidate, surely an honest person wouldn't oppose him on the basis of his religion.Andrew I. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13119240321588754796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-84341367519194563892008-02-01T12:50:00.000-06:002008-02-01T12:50:00.000-06:00T4X4:I would still beg to differ - there are ALWAY...T4X4:<BR/><BR/>I would still beg to differ - there are ALWAYS preconceptions that we bring to the table. I have felt the “Aha!” moments of the Spirit teaching me directly – when something suddenly becomes so clear that you wonder what you were ever questioning. I too seek to understand things as they really were, as they really are, and as they really will be. But I do not claim to be inerrant in my understanding – nor complete for that matter.<BR/><BR/>You mentioned Saul/Paul as one who was emptied of all preconceptions and only had a clear view (as God sees?). What about Peter who obviously was filled with the Spirit and knew by revelation that Jesus was the Christ? He still brought earlier (and maybe even true) understandings to the table with regard to the new revelation about preaching to the Gentiles. Even though he was the one who had the revelation and therefore should have known better, Paul still took him to task on apparently favoring those of the circumcision. Of course, we don’t have Peter’s side of the story, so we don’t know if he was also following the Spirit in that case – providing the opportunity for someone to take the first baby-steps towards accepting the Gospel by being careful of the current cultural climate instead of alienating that person. But there was obviously conflict so it would be hard to say that both were emptied of their own ideas in this case. If they were emptied of their own ideas, would they not become puppets? I think God lets us move forward with our own shortcomings and little by little we learn and change and are molded by the Master. But for now, we “see through a glass darkly”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-5704696917367887792008-01-31T03:55:00.000-06:002008-01-31T03:55:00.000-06:00Dear Kaya Pala,I removed the comment because it wa...Dear Kaya Pala,<BR/><BR/>I removed the comment because it wasn't grammatically correct the first time of posting. (I still missed a word out of one sentence after checking it through).<BR/><BR/>This highlights what happens when we try to interpret for ourselves and this is why we can easily be led into truth or error.<BR/><BR/>I liked your reply and I can see that in that sense we are in agreement. I have been criticised heavily previously for my considered 'staunch' belief in the Bible teachings, so that is why I neded to check to see that my comment was accepted graciously and not mis-taken out of it's intended meaning.<BR/><BR/>I didn't take any insults - I was just trying to check which direction your comment was coming from. Thanks for clarifying.<BR/><BR/>Out of the many denominations, I do have a high respect for members of the LDS faith. Mostly their intentions are noble and their lifestyles wouldn't go un-noticed if emulated by many people living in a state of debauchery around the world. It would certainly improve in many areas.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, there is a health message that is second to none in the world and personally speaking I DO disagree with the doctrines based on Joseph Smith, his interpretations and teachings and the BoM. BUT I still have the utmost respect for members of the faith individually!<BR/><BR/>I try to keep my own guidance under the watchful promptings of the Holy Spirit, which I do not believe would lead me down the wrong path.<BR/><BR/>Have you considered that we have Revelation today - it is a book in the Bible. One of the early verses in the book states : <I>"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."</I><BR/><BR/>Considering that this book uses many references from the OT and John's personal viewpoint of the Spirit's leading to confirm the prophecies and offer weight to the testimony, should we not read to understand? If we do read it (with prayer and supplication), this verse also explains what will happen to us - we will be blessed. By who ?<BR/><BR/>I also was non-denominational, like you for a number of years. I am convinced that there are many more like you in the world. For me it is way more important to have the foundational relationship on a very personal level with God, so that a denomination is not able to pollute or take this away from you. This is the one aspect that unites all martyrs who have been put to death for the God that they were vindicating. The church was designed to have many aspects and offer many roles, but it's one purpose was for like-minded unity in Jesus. If you do (at some time) decide to join a church, please do ensure that your faith is built on the Rock !<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for your comment.<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-90922388905093326802008-01-31T01:30:00.000-06:002008-01-31T01:30:00.000-06:00.... I haven't read what you said that Jeff remove....... I haven't read what you said that Jeff removed there, but I thank You for your reply, I might only have said that because as I understand of what a choice is, there is something that leads us to such a choice, and there are as you said it "choices can lead to right or wrong and can harbour Truth or error." And that would mean that the scriptures can lead you to "truth or error" depending on the reasons why you read or why you study them and also why you would want to preach or talk about them or even your comprehension or grammar understanding, and I think that I got a little excited about the word ERROR because that would mean that my or any other man's understanding is never sufficient to explain the scriptures... and that would really be something that would need Revelation, specially today? I am an observer, and am not a native to the English language and am sorry if you felt insulted of what I said... I do not try to belong myself to any religious group but as I understand the teachings of this "Mormons" I think they got a lot of sense there... thank you T4X4... sincerely, Kaya PalaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-7545055466069357062008-01-30T08:21:00.000-06:002008-01-30T08:21:00.000-06:00Dear Kaya Pala,I am not claiming that I interpret ...Dear Kaya Pala,<BR/><BR/>I am not claiming that I interpret the Bible myself - maybe the choice of words here was not the best to make myself understood (if you are attempting to be critical).<BR/><BR/>Maybe a better word to use would be 'Discernment' or even better, 'Comprehension'.<BR/><BR/>I confirm that I interpret nothing other than either you or I can read the passages.<BR/><BR/>The rest is up to us to decide. This is the power of choice that I was referring to exactly.<BR/><BR/>I apologise if you read my comment out of context and took a different <I>slant</I>.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-12209371113109021232008-01-30T08:18:00.000-06:002008-01-30T08:18:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-6702525623112468262008-01-29T01:43:00.000-06:002008-01-29T01:43:00.000-06:00"Interpretation of the Bible is a wonderful thing ..."Interpretation of the Bible is a wonderful thing as we all have the power to make our own choices. <BR/><BR/>Those choices can lead to right or wrong and can harbour Truth or error."<BR/><BR/> Thank you for this thought, now I understand why....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-33325288487289766742008-01-28T10:57:00.000-06:002008-01-28T10:57:00.000-06:00Dear Bruce,Only if one has atheistic leanings to s...Dear Bruce,<BR/><BR/>Only if one has atheistic leanings to start off with !<BR/><BR/>Interpretation of the Bible is a wonderful thing as we all have the power to make our own choices. <BR/><BR/>Those choices can lead to right or wrong and can harbour Truth or error.<BR/><BR/>Such is the tightrope and fine line due to corruption and deception that investigation is necessary for a deep foundation in Jesus. He ultimately is the source of our salvation and in Him only can be found the Truth.<BR/><BR/>Not once have I stated, implied or resoned that the LDS faith is ultimately rubbish. Faith is a wonderfully personal attribute and the Holy Spirit leads in an even more astounding way. I will sensitively oppose, but not 'rubbish'. Such is the delight of wisdom, counsel and understanding! <BR/><BR/>Seeing as Jesus will finally decide who will be and who will not be toast, why not just follow Him. What is there to lose? <BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-86941043662719230902008-01-28T10:39:00.000-06:002008-01-28T10:39:00.000-06:00Dear Dave D,I can fully appreciate where you are c...Dear Dave D,<BR/><BR/>I can fully appreciate where you are coming from, since I am one of the few / many (you pick the definition) of 'many prvious generation' Christians who decided to opt out of Christianity to pursue weekend activities in the name of sports and recreation (what a choice of word)!<BR/><BR/>Having come back to Christianity mainly due to arriving at the perceived 'crossroads' in my life, I made sure that I viewed it from a totally unpolluted viewpoint without any preconceived ideas or 'worldviews'. <BR/><BR/>So whilst I can appreciate your comment as one that I would have conceded in my youth being within a denomination, I now would beg to differ.<BR/><BR/>Reason - when we give our life to Jesus in the sense of 'conversion', the whole process of repentance, baptism, justification and daily sanctification is one that is Holy Spirit led. We achieve nothing ourselves in this regard apart from emptying ourselves of our former selves and allowing the Spirit to 'mould' our new characters. This is what Jesus was refering to with his comment "I am the potter, thou art the clay'. <BR/><BR/>So if we empty ourselves in order for the Spirit to take up 100% of our very being, then what preconceptions can we bring to the table ? Nada, because the Spirit leads. <BR/><BR/>This is exactly the experience of Saul / Paul. Can you see any of his worldview preconceptions being brought to the table in any of his letters in the NT? All I see is a complete 180 degree u-turn. <BR/><BR/>The unfortunate situation for you is that you did not know me before in order to judge my own preconceived worldviews. I can assure you that some of them <I>were</I> quite extreme ! <BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-38648578303726200722008-01-26T20:58:00.000-06:002008-01-26T20:58:00.000-06:00"Which means someone's totally wrong or we are ind..."Which means someone's totally wrong or we are indeed all toast, with no exceptions."<BR/><BR/>Whats your point? Even Christ said some people were totally wrong. There can be those that is correct and have the true priesthood such as the Catholic church. And everyone else is toast.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29668381885970758062008-01-26T12:16:00.000-06:002008-01-26T12:16:00.000-06:00Honestly, reading all of this would turn you athei...Honestly, reading all of this would turn you atheist! What neither party will admit is that no religion can be 100% correct and true - it is not possible, otherwise it means that other religions are false. If LSD followers truly believe the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired then old world Christians are going to say that's hokum. Similarly, LSD people infer the bible is not the last word of God and that living prophets make up for its inadequacies, this means they think old world Christians are falling short and probably totally wrong too.<BR/><BR/>Either way, you can all argue black is white with each other, and although it may seem like a good old theological natter, it's actually nothing more than 'my religion is less rubbish than yours'<BR/><BR/>There isn't a religion that truly teaches all religions are equally valid, all have a Unique Selling Point, and it's called Salvation - if we don't buy it we're all toast, I presume?<BR/><BR/>Which means someone's totally wrong or we are indeed all toast, with no exceptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-37187022009002778632008-01-26T02:21:00.000-06:002008-01-26T02:21:00.000-06:00Adventists believe that when you die you go into t...Adventists believe that when you die you go into the grave, ... Jesus also refers to death as sleep, so we sleep in the grave to await the coming of Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-46292416043278935722008-01-26T02:16:00.000-06:002008-01-26T02:16:00.000-06:00Seventh-day Adventists teaches that Jesus is Micha...Seventh-day Adventists teaches that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, but Ellen White said He was Michael.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83420548719870694812008-01-26T02:15:00.000-06:002008-01-26T02:15:00.000-06:00Seventh-day Adventists teaches that Jesus is Micha...Seventh-day Adventists teaches that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, but Ellen White said He was Michael.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-18092753215496793902008-01-26T01:18:00.000-06:002008-01-26T01:18:00.000-06:00"So if God decided to rescue Moses in this situati..."So if God decided to rescue Moses in this situation (through Michael - who I believe is Jesus) with a resurrection to depict the group of the faithful that die before seeing Jesus coming back again in all His glory, then of course he would then be at the Transfiguration having received His reward."<BR/><BR/>This why we say that Moses was transfigured and not resurrected is because Christ was the first to be resurrected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-14751175863728055422008-01-26T01:14:00.000-06:002008-01-26T01:14:00.000-06:00"The Watchtower assertion: Jesus was, in his pre..."The Watchtower assertion: Jesus was, in his pre-human existence, Michael the archangel. After his ascension into heaven, he again took up his name “Michael”. All following scripture citations are from the New World Translation, copyright 1961"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-62141356713788768462008-01-25T23:40:00.000-06:002008-01-25T23:40:00.000-06:00"If you believe this then you are holding to a bel..."If you believe this then you are holding to a belief that is in direct contradiction to the teaching of the Bible in Deuteronomy and Jude. OT and NT confirm the death and inate body of Moses lying in the grave."<BR/><BR/>Yes, we have stated that many times. We believe in modern revelation and this help correct any thing that might have been added or lost in the scriptures. Also more ideas that are not found in the bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-47852044584616182382008-01-25T21:16:00.000-06:002008-01-25T21:16:00.000-06:00Terrano4x4:I wouldn't say your beliefs are not bib...Terrano4x4:<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't say your beliefs are not bible based at all. In fact, you have shown that you try very hard to understand and adhere to the bible. But I would think it is disingenuous of anyone, including myself, to not realize that our understanding is tainted by our worldview and experiences. We bring certain things to the table when we study any subject. There is also a beauty in that because as we progress through life, our interpretations that we receive through the Spirit or our own reasoning are somewhat a product of our current situation and needs.<BR/><BR/>I do find it interesting to understand better what you believe and I see that it is very well reasoned out and consistent. My understanding is different on a few points (but the same on many) because I have my own background and worldview which I bring to the table. So on certain points, we read the bible differently, but we both have well reasoned and consistent understandings. I hope you will concede that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-20257690387047322702008-01-25T08:58:00.000-06:002008-01-25T08:58:00.000-06:00Dear Anon,I DO regard these verses.Why because the...Dear Anon,<BR/><BR/>I DO regard these verses.<BR/><BR/>Why because they speak of exactly how things happened.<BR/><BR/>Jesus was among the 'firstfurits' - notice the plural, but I still refer to my earlier comments on this. <BR/><BR/>We were discussing regarding Moses, but I can examine your 'new' supported evidence from the verses in Matthew.<BR/><BR/>There is one important key word in verse 53 which I type in bold for you to see more clearly :<BR/><I>Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves <B>AFTER</B> his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. </I><BR/><BR/>The Bible is quite clear about this.<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-14517375570162702772008-01-25T08:03:00.000-06:002008-01-25T08:03:00.000-06:00Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bo...Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, <BR/><BR/><BR/> Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-51215337526074169692008-01-25T07:57:00.000-06:002008-01-25T07:57:00.000-06:00Matthew 27:53 "They came out of the tombs, and...Matthew 27:53 <BR/> <BR/>"They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."<BR/><BR/>Of course if you disreguard this scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com