tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post4438141633489397336..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 17 Miracles: A Film About More Than Just a Handcart CompanyJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-10069741562405079352012-08-14T17:30:11.328-05:002012-08-14T17:30:11.328-05:00I am amazed by the accomplishments and resilience ...I am amazed by the accomplishments and resilience of the pioneers. I have spent many hours reading of their travels and the hardships that they faced. I love this movie from the first moment and would tell everyone to watch it. If you are looking for a copy, i found great prices on Mormonmedia.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67571616406985590872012-05-11T23:36:25.975-05:002012-05-11T23:36:25.975-05:00@Anonymous,
My wife was saying that the incident ...@Anonymous,<br /><br />My wife was saying that the incident was much more nuanced than what was portrayed in the movie. From here take on reading about the incident if they would have stayed put they might have had problems too, since they didn't have enough food to over winter.<br /><br />But yes:<br /><br /><i>We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.</i>Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05518762624199557168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-88025671232737156022012-05-11T23:30:02.735-05:002012-05-11T23:30:02.735-05:00This is what I was trying to say in the other post...This is what I was trying to say in the other post on criticizing leaders. I'm glad you (Jeff) could do a better job them me in showing that it is OK to disagree with leadership.<br /><br />I still don't think it is OK to criticize. I think the two are different from each other. When I think criticize, I think more on par with attacking the character of the person rather than disagreeing with the ideas themselves.<br /><br />It is unfortunate that so many in the church refuse to think for themselves, which includes discussing their ideas with others rather than keeping them to themselves, that is what I mean by not thinking. We're social creatures and learn by discussing and by reading and by pondering by ourselves.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05518762624199557168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-11587285489265537442012-05-11T17:51:59.801-05:002012-05-11T17:51:59.801-05:00Another problem with the movie is that many of the...Another problem with the movie is that many of the so-called miracles seem to be rather shaky.<br /><br />Rather than rely on the historical accounts, the movie includes incidents that are family legends, rather than ones backed by contemporaneous records.<br /><br />The true miracle was that any survived and the heroic efforts of the rescuers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-17108698187638579632012-05-08T21:33:55.996-05:002012-05-08T21:33:55.996-05:00Your review is way too generous to this dreadful m...Your review is way too generous to this dreadful movie. I do agree about the acting and scenery, but the message the movie sends is disturbing.<br /><br />Perhaps a modern analogue for my family would be a youth temple trip. We live about 2.5 hours from our nearest temple and youth temple trips are a fun, communal event where we all carpool. Say for the next temple trip we all meet at the designated spot to carpool-usually the chapel-and while there the Bishop or SP announces the spirit has told him we need to be at the temple earlier than we planned or prepared for. Thus, we will need to drive at least 85 or 90 mph on the highway in a driving rainstorm to get to the temple for our new time slot. I don't think I would be sinning or rebelling against priesthood authority to tell the Bishop/SP he was reckless, foolish and I would not follow his ïnspired" counsel. Even if he were to publicly rebuke me, like poor Brother Levi was, and falsely claim some priesthood mantle to lead people on a foolhardy journey to their deaths would I change my mind. Or, it would take a lot more than a public dressing down for me to be persuaded driving 85 mph on interstate 95 in a rainstorm with a car full my own and others' kids was something I would ever do. <br /><br /> But, that is the message sent by this movie.I was disapointed at those scenes where Levi was disparaged and called to repentance for speaking the truth, particularly where the stakes were so high. There's not much about that story to be praised, imo. There's plenty to learn but not in the way you describe. The stakes for those poor Saints were way, way too high. The movie almost celebrates the blind and crazy obedience of those Saints, when we should probably step back and think about where and how to draw lines when asked to do dangerous things by priesthood leaders. <br /><br />To be sure, there is growth and strengthened faith when we obey commandments, but we should not celebrate priesthood leaders who abuse their authority-even when done sincerely and for altruistic purposes-and cause serious pain and harm.<br /><br />As I said, I think your review is too generous. Based on word of mouth reviews I had heard, we bought the blu-ray version-on a temple trip a few months back. I had the opposite reaction to yours and would gladly give the movie away to anyone interested in it. I've offered it-free of charge- to my HPG, but so far no takers. <br /><br />On a separate note, I really enjoy your blog and your approach to the gospel is refreshing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-35396634058468949252012-05-07T21:24:26.649-05:002012-05-07T21:24:26.649-05:00Joseph, I have to agree with you.Joseph, I have to agree with you.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00219023897626648057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-68365293052572828162012-05-07T11:36:49.881-05:002012-05-07T11:36:49.881-05:00I have longed for the day when the story of Levi S...I have longed for the day when the story of Levi Savage overtakes the popularity of other parts of the handcart lore. You have recognized clearly one of the missing parts in our current method of leading the Church, and that is the ever-present fear, directly caused by preaching so, of speaking up and opposing a priesthood leader. Not only is it discouraged still in the Church, but it is preached from the pulpit as being a sin. Levi was NOT sinning in speaking up before they left. And yes, it took a humble yet courageous man like Levi to both speak up and then decide to help them anyway. But, we all could use some less preaching about it being sinful to "criticize" our leaders, and we could actually encourage what is recognized today amongst modern leadership techniques as good leadership in listening to those we are leading and getting their input.Joseph McKnightnoreply@blogger.com