tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post7148781068364130609..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Tis Better to Give than to Loan: How to Help Friends and Relatives Stay Out of Debt - and Not Become Your EnemiesJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29647340425505195112007-11-26T14:45:00.000-06:002007-11-26T14:45:00.000-06:00I agree wholeheartedly with this post and with Boo...I agree wholeheartedly with this post and with Bookslinger’s comments. The fast-offering program of the Church has these elements and so much more. It provides a means to give as a gift (through sacrifice of a few meals) even for those that normally would not otherwise be able to do so. It provides a way for those in need to keep their dignity (some kind of work may be required). AND it provides the right “strings” attached – working with ecclesiastical leaders to develop a plan to become self-sufficient once again. There is no expectation of repayment, but every expectation that those needing assistance progress in their ability to provide for themselves.<BR/><BR/>At times, fast offering assistance may be refused for a variety of reasons. At times, this gives friends and family of those in need another opportunity to give beyond their fast offering. But at times, the bishop who refused to give fast offering assistance may have been inspired to have the individual feel the gravity of their situation after they have repeatedly failed to live up to the expectations set up with previous assistance. Doing so sometimes allows them to take ownership of their situation and begin to make steps necessary to resolve it.<BR/><BR/>With the restored gospel, we understand that we are to become something more than we are and that we are to exert our own efforts to do so (knowing full well that the Lord will have to make up for all our shortcomings). We are given certain responsibilities and stewardships that we are to take care of and improve – our bodies, our time, our talents, and our means – rather than squander, waste, or bury. Providing financial help along with inspired guidance of ecclesiastical leaders and a plan to improve are very consistent with the gospel and can lead to better long-term results than to continually give in a way that enables, creates dependencies, and develops a culture of entitlement. While we as individuals are not to judge the beggar who puts up his petition to us, I am grateful that the Lord also set up a way to provide financial assistance in a way that has a much better chance to uplift and improve the needy individual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-5083681445628939492007-11-24T07:24:00.000-06:002007-11-24T07:24:00.000-06:00I learned this lesson many years ago.After having ...I learned this lesson many years ago.After having a number of bad experiences on loans I started giving what I could rather than a loan. I can say that all the bad feelings and stress was removed, but only give what you can afford.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-58781429915791611742007-11-23T22:34:00.000-06:002007-11-23T22:34:00.000-06:00And by the way, taking stuff to a pawn shop is sti...And by the way, taking stuff to a pawn shop is still better than those "pay day" short-term loan deals.<BR/><BR/>If you're sure you'll have the money to pay back the pay-day loan place, then you might as well pawn something if you have a TV or something of value.<BR/><BR/>Those interest rates and penalties on short-term loans are worse than redeeming pawned items from a pawn-shop.<BR/><BR/>Better yet is to live frugally in the first place, don't get into debt, don't make impulse purchases, don't make financial committments that aren't necessary, be prepared for financial emergencies, etc.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-25333724452765125172007-11-23T22:30:00.000-06:002007-11-23T22:30:00.000-06:00Another option is to buy something from the person...Another option is to buy something from the person who needs money, with the option that they can buy it back within a certain time frame. This would be like pawning.<BR/><BR/>I guy I know needed money, and I didn't want to just give him that much money, and I knew if I loaned it to him, he'd never pay it back.<BR/><BR/>However, he had a DVD collection he was willing to sell. He needed the money _fast_, and would have taken the collection to a pawn shop.<BR/><BR/>I ended up buying his DVD collection at twice the price a regular pawn shop would have given him, and I felt like I got a good bargain.<BR/><BR/>I still have those DVD's. But the time frame has expired, so I feel free to sell them on Ebay or however. But I like those DVDs, so I'll just keep them.<BR/><BR/>This is another way of the borrower/receiver keeping their dignity, since they aren't receiving charity or a loan they can't pay back. They actually gave something of value, tangible assets, in return for the money.<BR/><BR/>A lot of people have extra stuff they don't absolutely need, like an extra TV, or a french-fry maker, or extra kitchen stuff.<BR/><BR/>So even though you as the giver may not need that french-fry maker, etc., your friend gets some money they need, and gets to keep their dignity.Bookslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077778974473538408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-64957645891387763602007-11-23T13:29:00.000-06:002007-11-23T13:29:00.000-06:00Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and...<I>Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!For who has known the mind of our Lord, or who became His counselor? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? <B>For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things</B> To Him be the glory forever. Amen. </I> Romans 11...<BR/><BR/>His Word explicitly says that this gift of life is <B>free</B> (<I>For by grace you saved through faith, not of works... Ephesians 2</I>), yet so many professing Christians live life as if God had given us a loan to pay off...<BR/><BR/>Jeff, I pray that we might all, each day, come to a full realization that all we can do is receive, receive, receive...and so then live radical Christian lives...<BR/><BR/>In the same way that Jeff exhorts us, instead of offering loans to our families but to simply GIVE, God, who is infinitely loving, from His infinitely generous heart has given us a gift. God has also simply given. It is not a loan; neither do we have anything we can pay back (Romans 11)...<BR/><BR/>...in our humility, all we can do is receive and live a life of thankfulness in our response to having attained this free gift...NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-84631359526006808152007-11-23T08:24:00.000-06:002007-11-23T08:24:00.000-06:00I presume you have heard of Dave Ramsey, then? The...I presume you have heard of Dave Ramsey, then? <BR/><BR/>The borrower is slave to the lender...and I never want to put anybody in my family in that position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-51354129344422125342007-11-23T07:34:00.000-06:002007-11-23T07:34:00.000-06:00Mormanity----Immediately make an appointment with ...Mormanity----<BR/><BR/>Immediately make an appointment with a Dr. Your polka comments scare me.<BR/><BR/>DaleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-43782101630327307832007-11-23T02:34:00.000-06:002007-11-23T02:34:00.000-06:00I hope that didn't come across as self praise. I w...I hope that didn't come across as self praise. I wanted to show that the Lord blessed both of us.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703965785236123679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-92016410892883859152007-11-22T23:56:00.000-06:002007-11-22T23:56:00.000-06:00Wonderful post. I've experienced the downside of ...Wonderful post. I've experienced the downside of loans as the borrower and lender. Much better to give and forget. <BR/>-TroyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-7980942722472095282007-11-22T22:05:00.000-06:002007-11-22T22:05:00.000-06:00Amen, Peter. Nice example. How sad when material t...Amen, Peter. Nice example. How sad when material things end up jeopardizing friendships. Glad you could do that!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-26331749170486519402007-11-22T21:06:00.000-06:002007-11-22T21:06:00.000-06:00I love this post. I think it is a great example of...I love this post. I think it is a great example of "Christian" giving. I had a mate who clocked up a large phone bill while living with me. The phone was in my name so I had to pay the bill. Over a few months he was paying back bits and pieces until he moved out. I would say that he and I were blessed by my new job. I understood the situation he was in financially and while I was being blessed from a new (higher paying) job I was able to let him know to forget paying me back and just do something nice or put it towards his future with his wife. This man has a lot of debt and doesn't really need me chasing him as well as the various financial institutions. We haven't spoken in about 2-3 weeks but I know that while comparatively this was a small burden, being able to forgive even that bit would make a world of difference to him.<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703965785236123679noreply@blogger.com