tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post8045201163730797892..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Paul: Preaching Christ Means Teaching Repentance and Doing Works Meet for RepentanceJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger134125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-32274723006997138252007-11-17T05:23:00.000-06:002007-11-17T05:23:00.000-06:00But these days, she said, an increasing number of ...But these days, she said, an increasing number of archaeologists have come to doubt that Joshua's campaign ever took place. Instead, they theorize that the ancient Israelites emerged gradually and peacefully from among the region's general population -- a demographic evolution, not a military invasion. "And that would explain how their pottery is so similar to the Canaanites', and their architecture, their script <BR/><BR/>(This debate was recently fought out in a lively issue of the Biblical Archaeology Review, a bimonthly magazine published in Washington, in which one of the minimalists, the British scholar Philip Davies, wrote that biblical accounts of early Israel were purely theological, not historical. In response, a major critic of the minimalists, the American archaeologist William Dever, wrote that ample physical evidence pointed to early Israelites living in the region's highlands 3,200 years ago, two centuries before the time of David and Solomon.) <BR/><BR/>Israel Finkelstein, the director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University makes the same argument: "Archaeology has shown that early Israel indeed emerged from the local population of late Bronze Canaan." In addition, he said, archaeology has turned up no physical remains to support the Bible's story of the Exodus: "There is no evidence for the wanderings of the Israelites in the Sinai desert." <BR/><BR/>Israel Finkelstein, his reports from Megiddo that some structures attributed to Solomon were actually built after his reign have touched off fierce debate in Israel.<BR/><BR/>Although I know the bible is true and mostly correct archeology has a long way to go to pin down many of the important events in its history.<BR/><BR/>The statement "purely theological" reminds me of how we have needed to look at the Book of Mormon from different angles and deeper to find all it has to offer. Was it written for history, theology, spiritually, family history, or leadership authority?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-28657566067128322552007-11-16T05:24:00.000-06:002007-11-16T05:24:00.000-06:00T4x4, said:"Historians are marvelling about how ac...T4x4, said:<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Historians are marvelling about how accurate the Bible is in it's own historical records." <BR/><BR/>Only bibical historians find accuraties, not those that study it with a open mind. I know it is true but most historians don't consider it good history or very accurate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-48122960678575688632007-11-12T03:52:00.000-06:002007-11-12T03:52:00.000-06:00Dear Anon,I think that you are mis-guided when you...Dear Anon,<BR/><BR/>I think that you are mis-guided when you state that the Bible is 'wrong'. I pray for the correcting experience in your thinking.<BR/><BR/>I would prefer to use the comment:<BR/><BR/>The Bible is God's Word to mankind. It is consistent in it's message of truth that will lead man to salvation. It has been written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by man. So if you want to doubt it feel free - as you only doubt the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>I never stated anywhere that I think that the Bible is perfect. It was written by man and man is not perfect, so even under guidance there will still be some small margin for error - but it is not to the status that you claim. Jesus is perfect, the Holy Spirit is perfect and His recorded words are perfect. Historians are marvelling about how accurate the Bible is in it's own historical records. Many doubters are now convinced that the Bible record is more accurate than is given credit for and many scientists prefer to play down these accuracies because they do not 'fit' their logical thinking.<BR/><BR/>The bottom line is : what kind of future could man look forward to without the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Acts ?<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-26175146986704824932007-11-10T07:49:00.000-06:002007-11-10T07:49:00.000-06:00The point that I (and I think NM are trying to mak...The point that I (and I think NM are trying to make) is the archaelogical finds that are constantly being discovered. For years atheists used to condemn the Bible for ancient civilisations for example - the Hittites. Well, now the habitation, cities, language, culture and time is well documented for the Hittite empire and guess what ? - it is Biblically sound. This is just one example of many, many, many.....<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>There are many examples where the bible is wrong. The scriptures are not perfect but God is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67103322591305626572007-11-10T05:42:00.000-06:002007-11-10T05:42:00.000-06:00I am sure that the last five books in the list are...I am sure that the last five books in the list are inter-related in some way and we will not receive this knowledge until we get to Heaven. Some things are worth waiting for, so let us study what we have....<BR/><BR/>My whole point is not every thing is in the bible and the bible is not perfect. Just taking the bible at face value is dangerous.<BR/>is the archaelogical finds that are constantly being discovered. For years atheists used to condemn the Bible for ancient civilisations for example - the Hittites. Well, now the habitation, cities, language, culture and time is well documented for the Hittite empire and guess what ? - it is Biblically sound. This is just one example of many, many, many.....<BR/><BR/><BR/>Here you use archaelogy to prove a point just like everyone does. This is what we try to do with our discussion our religion. Further, archaelogy also has shown that the bible, in many ways have been missunderstood if not incorrect. Later as more is found that may change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-30731472704081790482007-11-08T08:17:00.000-06:002007-11-08T08:17:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-10148410840478200172007-11-08T07:45:00.000-06:002007-11-08T07:45:00.000-06:00Dear Anon,I am not going to discuss the baptisms f...Dear Anon,<BR/><BR/>I am not going to discuss the baptisms for the dead with you in this thread - maybe Jeff can start a new topic. My Biblical views are a sure-fire way to see deletion. <BR/><BR/>In answer to your 'book list' I noticed that all of the reference points were Biblical. Maybe further study of the Bible could show you what was contained in these books. Have you looked in study to discover more about the people that wrote them ? <BR/><BR/>I am sure that the last five books in the list are inter-related in some way and we will not receive this knowledge until we get to Heaven. Some things are worth waiting for, so let us study what we have....<BR/><BR/>The point that I (and I think NM are trying to make) is the archaelogical finds that are constantly being discovered. For years atheists used to condemn the Bible for ancient civilisations for example - the Hittites. Well, now the habitation, cities, language, culture and time is well documented for the Hittite empire and guess what ? - it is Biblically sound. This is just one example of many, many, many.....<BR/><BR/>To take one Bible verse, relate it to Galileo's personal belief and the mistake of the 'Institutionalised Inquisition' in their evil regime of 'mind and body' control, shows the inadequacies of the shallow nature of man's doctrines, not God's Commandments.<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-63139551847682039362007-11-08T05:28:00.000-06:002007-11-08T05:28:00.000-06:00NM, said:"I'd have to agree with T4x4 here. When y...NM, said:<BR/><BR/><BR/>"I'd have to agree with T4x4 here. When you investigate the historicity of the Bible, the facts speak for themselves; and they really are quite staggering(!) =)"<BR/><BR/>Not if you read people that study it from a scholarly point of view. You, I, Lee Strobel and others want it all to be true and we may know it is true but history correct it is not been proven. There are many good finds but most history scholars do not consider it good history.<BR/><BR/>Further, study are other book that are mention in the bible but not included.<BR/>The Book of Wars - Num. 21:14 <BR/>The Book of Jasher - Josh. 10:13 <BR/>The Chronicles of David - 1 Chron. 27:24 <BR/>The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah - 2 Chron. 27:7; 35:27; 36:8 <BR/>The Book of the Kings of Israel - 1 Chron. 9:1; 2 Chron. 20:34. <BR/>The Words of the Kings of Israel - 2 Chron. 33:18. <BR/>The Decree of David the King of Israel - 2 Chron. 35:4. <BR/>The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer - 1 Chron. 29:29 <BR/>The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet - 1 Chron. 29:29 <BR/>The Book of Gad - 1 Chron. 29:29 <BR/>The Book of the Prophet Iddo - 2 Chron. 13:22 <BR/>The Words of Shemaiah the Prophet - 2 Chron. 12:15 <BR/>The Deeds of Uzziah by Isaiah the Prophet - 2 Chron. 26:22; 32:32 <BR/>The Book of Jehu - 2 Chron. 20:34 <BR/>The Record book of Ahasuerus - Esther 2:23; 6:1 <BR/>The Book of Remembrance - Mal. 3:16 <BR/>The Book of Life - Dan. 12:1; Phil. 4:3; Rev. 20:11; 22:19 <BR/>The Book of Judgment - Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12 <BR/>The seven-sealed book - Rev. 5:1, 13. <BR/>An angel's book - Rev. 10:2 <BR/><BR/>The would be important studies and could add to our knowledge. Just to quote the bible over and over again does not help expand us understand what the meaning of some scriptures are. <BR/><BR/>The example of the Morman practice of Baptism for the Dead? 1 Chrinthians 15:29 What could this mean? Here are some bible commintaries that try to explain its meaning. There are other that disagree but they study other historical documents to try to determine what it means. They don't just keep quoting the scriptures.<BR/><BR/><BR/>James Moulten and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament:<BR/><BR/><BR/> Close inspection of the language of the reference makes all attempts to soften or eliminate its literal meaning unsuccessful. An endeavor to understand the dead as persons who are "dead in sin" does not really help; for the condition offered, if the dead are not being raised at all, makes it clear that the apostle is writing about persons who are physically dead. It appears that under the pressure of concern for the eternal destiny of dead relatives or friends some people in the church were undergoing baptism on their behalf in the belief that this would enable the dead to receive the benefits of Christ's salvation. (James Moulten and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1981, p. 651, original emphasis)<BR/><BR/><BR/>The Expositer's Bible Commentary:<BR/><BR/><BR/> Here Paul returns to his argument for the resurrection of the dead. There is a special difficulty in understanding v. 29 because we do not know the background of the words "baptized for the dead." There are many interpretations, but it is difficult to find a satisfactory one. The present tense "baptize" suggests that the practice of baptizing for the dead was current and evidently well known to the Corinthians. . . .<BR/><BR/><BR/> . . . its ["huper's", the Greek word behind "for" in "baptized for the dead"] basic meaning with the genitive is "for," "in behalf of," or "in the place of."<BR/><BR/><BR/> According to [H. A. W.] Meyer, this verse means that believers already baptized were rebaptized for the benefit of believers who had died unbaptized. This was done on the assumption that it would count for the unbaptized dead and thereby assure their resurrection along with the baptized, living believers. . . .<BR/><BR/><BR/> At any rate, Paul simply mentions the superstitious custom without approving it and uses it to fortify his argument that there is a resurrection from the dead. (The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1976, vol. 10, pp. 287-288)<BR/><BR/>Other books Dead Sea Scrolls, Pesudopigraphy, ect. ect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-7992680344320258642007-11-08T03:18:00.000-06:002007-11-08T03:18:00.000-06:00Anonymous,I'd have to agree with T4x4 here. When ...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>I'd have to agree with T4x4 here. When you investigate the historicity of the Bible, the facts speak for themselves; and they really are quite staggering(!) =)<BR/><BR/>Just check out the lee strobel site... it's really quite eye-openning.NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-73582174820211734612007-11-08T03:14:00.000-06:002007-11-08T03:14:00.000-06:00T4x4,"The Bible is the most accurate historical re...T4x4,<BR/><BR/><BR/>"The Bible is the most accurate historical record known to man"<BR/><BR/>I don't think most professors and scholars of theology would agree. I believe in the bibles doctrines we know it is all about who is interpreting what it says.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-68750491253147002242007-11-08T01:26:00.000-06:002007-11-08T01:26:00.000-06:00Anonymous,The site can be found here. (clicky clic...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>The site can be found here. <B><A HREF="http://www.leestrobel.com/index.html" REL="nofollow">(clicky clicky)</A></B>NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-73141958486370430492007-11-08T01:21:00.000-06:002007-11-08T01:21:00.000-06:00Anonymous,Can I point you to leestrobel dot com? ...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Can I point you to leestrobel dot com? He was once an atheist who set about trying to discredit it the Bible. But came to the wrong set of conclusions about it...in fact he is now a Christian and apologeticists. He wrote that infamous book, 'The Case for Christ'.<BR/><BR/>There's a section in his website that specifically deal with the historicity of the Bible. Excellent stuff =) It's the kind of material that I present whenever I run the 'Christianity Explored' course at my church... =)NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-32506193203668359092007-11-08T01:11:00.000-06:002007-11-08T01:11:00.000-06:00I will get back to you on the list of documents wh...I will get back to you on the list of documents when I get the chance, but I am pretty sure that all you know about the Bible comes from someone else. ie. translations, bible archaeological discoveries, Jews, professors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83399653705091760502007-11-07T16:34:00.000-06:002007-11-07T16:34:00.000-06:00Remember Galileo. He was brought before the Inquis...Remember Galileo. He was brought before the Inquisition and forced to recant his belief that the Sun was the center and the Earth revolved around it because of a 'Biblical' verse that was interpreted to say that it was the Sun that stood still and not the Earth. <BR/><BR/>What I am saying is that just because the Bible does not go into enough detail for some of you with regards to the preexistant intelligence of spirits or whatever subject you choose to discuss does not mean that it is not true. Nor is it true that a few well chosen verses of scripture will destroy someone else's argument. Ask Galileo when you see him. God chooses the time, the place and the Prophet to whom he wishes to dispense his truths to. And they are always relevant to the ones he reveals them to. <BR/><BR/>Isn't it nice to have a Prophet in these last days so you can find answers to these tough questions so you don't have to rely on the 'arm of flesh' and your own intellect. Well did God say that the wisdom of man is foolishness unto him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-87543143017046302882007-11-07T10:59:00.000-06:002007-11-07T10:59:00.000-06:00Dear Anon,The Bible is God's Word to human kind. A...Dear Anon,<BR/><BR/>The Bible is God's Word to human kind. And then the Word became flesh and dwelt among us!<BR/><BR/>The Bible is the most accurate historical record known to man. There are more archaeological discoveries from ancient civilisations as a result of the Bible's record than any other known.<BR/><BR/>You relate to other documents - which ones please ?Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83258194357896328872007-11-07T07:48:00.000-06:002007-11-07T07:48:00.000-06:00T4x4, said;However, nowhere in the Biblical Scrip...T4x4, said;<BR/><BR/><BR/>However, nowhere in the Biblical Scriptures does it indicate that a human’s “spirit” exists as an intelligent entity, apart from the physical brain and physical nervous system inside the body. In fact, quite the contrary is repeatedly and emphatically affirmed (Ps. 146:3, 4; Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10; etc. etc.).<BR/><BR/>This why those that study the scriptures look at all the documents from the time peroid to determin what the Bible is tring to get across. It is not always clear from just reading the scriptures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-80582788541640699682007-11-06T08:42:00.000-06:002007-11-06T08:42:00.000-06:00Dear Anon,Thanks for your comments too.“Jesus taug...Dear Anon,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments too.<BR/><BR/>“Jesus taught that each of us is the prodigal son/daughter of the One God -- and that we enter this world to embrace the process of soul/spiritual growth and perfection (Matt 5:48).”<BR/>In the verse cited in Matt5:48, Jesus is teaching us to be perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect. This is instruction for us to be single minded in our calling, so that we do not waver from the righteous path. It says nothing about “that we enter the world to embrace the process of soul / spiritual growth and perfection.” <BR/>Same for the previous text used in the verses about the disciples and the blind man. Jesus stated that the man was born blind so that “the works of God were to be made manifest in him”. This is not talking about the miracle so that he can see – it is talking about his belief so that he can one day realise eternal life. This is the work of God – restoration back to Him. The vision in his eyes was simply a peripheral by-product of the man’s faith in his heart as read by Jesus.<BR/><BR/>This concept that you offer is a new theology that was borne out of man’s conception regarding eternal matters :<BR/>SPIRIT. The translation of the Heb. ruÆach, “spirit,” “wind,” “breath,” and of the Gr. pneuma, “wind.”<BR/>God is declared to be a “Spirit” (John 4:24). The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead. Angels are “ministering spirits” (Heb. 1:14). With respect to human beings, “spirit” is the vital, animating force that characterizes a living person. RuÆach is sometimes translated “breath” (Gen. 7:15; Job 9:18; etc.), breath being a readily observed and conclusive evidence of the presence of life.<BR/>At death the invisible life force leaves the body (Gen. 7:22; cf. Job 27:3; Ps. 104:29). The spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7; cf. Acts 7:59). Bible believing Christians have sometimes identified the spirit, which leaves the body at death, with simply the breath. For example, the expression in Luke 23:46 “he gave up the ghost” (Gr. exepneusen) is literally “he expired,” or “he breathed out.” On the other hand, the spirit that returns to God has also been identified with the character: Our personal identity is preserved in the resurrection, though not the same particles of matter or material substance as went into the grave. The wondrous works of God are a mystery to man. The spirit, the character of man, is returned to God, there to be preserved. In the resurrection every man will have his own character.<BR/><BR/>However, nowhere in the Biblical Scriptures does it indicate that a human’s “spirit” exists as an intelligent entity, apart from the physical brain and physical nervous system inside the body. In fact, quite the contrary is repeatedly and emphatically affirmed (Ps. 146:3, 4; Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10; etc. etc.). The concept of the spirit’s being capable of independent, intelligent, conscious, personal existence apart from the body was derived from pagan Greek philosophy and was introduced into the Christian church in the early centuries of the Christian Era by theologians of the church in Alexandria, Egypt, who adopted Platonic philosophy and blended it with Christian doctrine. This was noted in the Bible in the following textual warning :<BR/><BR/>1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. <BR/>2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: <BR/>3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. <BR/>4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. <BR/>5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. <BR/>6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1John 4:1-6<BR/><BR/>The spirits spoken of are not floaty, invisible, ghostly apparition incarnations of our Being (pre-natal or post-death). The Bible texts do state quite literally without any mis-understanding exactly what they are, whether one looks at the English translation or the original language used. Please tell me when the last time you actually heard a spirit that you define, confessing to you?Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-556057683997248352007-11-06T06:58:00.000-06:002007-11-06T06:58:00.000-06:00“The Messiah was part of God's plan from the begin...“The Messiah was part of God's plan from the beginning - not a solution proposed when God's real plan was overthrown by Adam.” I agree with the verses that you gave and also the comments that you made except the one quoted here. I did not suggest that the plan of redemption was an emergency plan quickly set up after man fell. Please go back to my original comment on this and re-read. The word that I used was a ‘contingency’ plan. Contingency doesn’t mean ‘after thought’, it doesn’t mean back-up plan exclusively. It means something that may happen but is not necessarily going to happen. So here we still see the power of free-will at work. Adam and Eve had that choice. ‘Foreordained’ does not mean His destiny. It means taking on status or title or position. In context to this verse it means acknowledgement of Jesus in the Godhead before the foundation of the world (in that He was involved in the planning of the activities of the complete unit known as God).<BR/>The verse in Revelation that you quote is an interesting one, because the key word in the whole sentence is ‘from’. In context, the plan of redemption (contingency) clicked into action after creation which was our beginning – that is what ‘from’ means in this instance. Hence the ‘promise’ given by God about the ‘bruising of the heel’ etc in Gen 3 and the contingency plan becomes reality …. <BR/>I am not making any mistakes here – my theology is Biblically sound. “Christ was prepared from the beginning - the only hope for mankind.” I agree with this wholeheartedly but it was not prepared as the ONLY way for fate, destiny, history or whatever you want to call it. This is pre-destination without free-will. It doesn’t apply to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or to mankind. We all have choices of freedom – Jesus made his choice to desire to save us – it is up to us to make our desire for Him. <BR/><BR/>Let me ask you a few questions in reply. Is the whole sinless sacrifice of Jesus just about His desire for man to be glorified and become ‘gods’ ? Or is there a deeper significance relating to the clensing of the sanctuary after the 2300 day prophecy found in Daniel – if so, which sanctuary ? Did sin originate on the earth ? If yes – how ? If no – where ? So whose benefit is the sacrifice of Jesus for ?Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-58401465532747264392007-11-06T06:56:00.000-06:002007-11-06T06:56:00.000-06:00Dear Jeff,Thank- you for your thought provoking an...Dear Jeff,<BR/><BR/>Thank- you for your thought provoking and quite interesting comments. <BR/><BR/>Adam and Eve were already exalted. The way that one views this is how one explains the whole temptation passage of Genesis 3 in the Garden of Eden, from the deception offered by the serpent (satan – whose name means ‘the accuser’) under area restriction of the tree only, not the whole Garden, note; until God calls for them when they are hiding and asks them who told them that they were naked. This isn’t a lesson for them to go and start shopping at Bloomingdales, it is far more simple than that. The robes of glory and righteousness adorned their bodies so that they knew no shame. This was exaltation from God for the crowing glory of all of His creation here on Earth, in it’s purest state. It was never God’s intention that Adam and Eve should ‘fall’. It was their own choice through their own actions and stupidity of going where they were instructed not to go – then taking their mistake further by undergoing temptation and both of them – agan note – BOTH of them individually falling in their own right. Adam’s was worse than Eve’s. She was deceived – He made his own choice as a result of the thought of losing his companion, which ultimately was worse, because he distrusted God’s heeding at that stage. That was the sin – the fruit was the proof of the pudding in the eating! Have you ever gone somewhere that you simply shouldn’t, in your lifetime ? I have and I have felt the guilt afterward as a result. Can we blame Adam and Eve – no of course not, because we all are no better. None of us – only Jesus who proved that we can choose to live like He did, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Often that choice comes once we seem to have made too many bad choices in our past.<BR/><BR/>No - your question about the heavenly diet is answered simply. “There will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away”. This means a complete paradigm shift in a completely new direction that none has ever experienced before. No more booting out – the price was paid at Calvary. No more desire to be proud or self exalted – “former things have passed away”. Bye-bye satan and followers – bye bye……… <BR/><BR/>For the two people question that you posed - was it God’s intention to give man dominion of the earth, the power of reproduction and no ability to actually use it? This is pure supposition, but anyone can guess at when Adama and Eve at the fruit. Many believe it was after millions of years, which gives us the data that some can extract from scientific analysis today. Many believe that it was after a few hundred years as they were roaming around the stretch of land mass in the whole sea that was ‘The Garden of Eden’, many (including me) believe that God is all powerful and merciful and that if they had overcome the wiles of satan, obeyed God implicitely and stayed away from ‘that tree’, then satan would have been sent packing, the tree as a test to obedience would have been removed totally from the Garden and we could all have enjoyed eternity living with God in His Garden. That they had no children logically implies that they fell well into their early days in the Garden, certainly within the nine months, which is the usual gestation period for human pregnancy. There is no distinct proof either way and to believe your notion is also pure supposition.Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-45251390019323900492007-11-06T05:14:00.000-06:002007-11-06T05:14:00.000-06:00T4x4,Jesus taught that each of us is the prodigal ...T4x4,<BR/><BR/>Jesus taught that each of us is the prodigal son/daughter of the One God -- and that we enter this world to embrace the process of soul/spiritual growth and perfection (Matt 5:48). Of this higher reality that is beyond the comprehension of carnal man, Rufinus writes of the Churches teachings: "...that it is not according to his [God’s] own pre-judgment and knowledge, but according to the merit of the elect that God’s choice of men is determined; and he says that, before the creation of the visible world, of sky and earth and seas and all that they contain, there existed other invisible creatures, among which also were souls; and that these souls, for reasons known to God alone, were cast down into this vale of tears, this place of our mournful pilgrimage, and that this is shewn by the prayer uttered by a holy man of old who, having his habitation fixed here, yet longed to return to his original abode: 'Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged, that I have my habitation among the inhabitants of Kedar,' And, '…my soul has long been a pilgrim,' and again 'O wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from the body of this death?' and in another place 'It is better to return and be with Christ,' and elsewhere, 'Before I was brought low, I sinned;' and other words of a like character.” (Life and Works of Rufinus With Jerome’s Apology Against Rufinus, The Apology of Rufinus in Two Books; Anti-Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers, s.2, v.3 [27], p 903). What is clear here is that many of the earliest of Christian church authorities openly professed the belief that the soul pre-existed the body and the life that we presently live -- and our soul is in fact a “sojourner” -- a "pilgrim” -- in this physical world. Speaking of men such as the Apostle Paul, Rufinus writes of Jerome and Origen’s doctrine: “…before the souls were cast down into the world, and before the world, which was made up of souls, had been cast down together with its inhabitants into the abyss, God chose Paul and those like him, who were holy and undefiled."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-53071809698241175552007-11-05T05:32:00.000-06:002007-11-05T05:32:00.000-06:00T4x4,And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind ...T4x4,<BR/><BR/><BR/>And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1) <BR/><BR/>The disciples ask the Lord if the man himself could have committed the sin that led to his blindness. Given the fact that the man has been blind from birth, we are confronted with a provocative question. When could he have made such transgressions as to make him blind at birth? The only conceivable answer is in some prenatal state. The question as posed by the disciples explicitly presupposes prenatal existence. It will also be noted that Christ says nothing to dispel or correct the presupposition. Here is incontrovertible support for a doctrine of human preexistence.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." (John 3:5-6)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-64380374804979953882007-11-04T22:23:00.000-06:002007-11-04T22:23:00.000-06:00This is the part that does sicken me, to think tha...<I>This is the part that does sicken me, to think that this was Jesus' destiny from the beginning of time. I do not believe this one iota.</I><BR/><BR/>Christ was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8). It was the plan from the beginning!<BR/><BR/>Peter in 1 Peter 1 speaks of the glory that is possible through enduring the afflictions of mortality and obeying God. He calls us to look to the precious blood of the Lamb for our salvation (v. 19). <B>This Lamb, even Jesus Christ, "was foreordained before the foundation of the world" (v. 20).</B> The Messiah was part of God's plan from the beginning - not a solution proposed when God's real plan was overthrown by Adam. Christ as Redeemer was planned from the beginning, as was our potential for honor and glory with Christ as we overcome the trials of our faith through the grace of Christ (1 Peter 1:7).<BR/><BR/>Don't make the mistake of thinking that the glorious ministry of Christ was an unfortunate afterthought or a backup plan when God's real plan somehow went awry. Christ was prepared from the beginning - the only hope for mankind. God's objective was not to have two ignorant children remain forever as children, but He prepared a way for them to come unto Him as glorified sons and daughters who intelligently and knowingly choose God and Christ and the power of the Atonement of the Lamb, who was prepared long before Adam and Eve ever set eyes on that fruit.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-71864255281385219312007-11-04T22:06:00.000-06:002007-11-04T22:06:00.000-06:00Adam and Eve were already exalted?What kind of exa...Adam and Eve were already exalted?<BR/><BR/>What kind of exaltation is it when one dietary slip can cost you everything? Who left that toxic tree in plain sight? And who let that snake in the door?<BR/><BR/>Question: will those who accept Christ and go to heaven also be in a similar unstable state, with demons running around trying to trick them into a little slip in the heavenly diet that will cost them their salvation and get booted out? What kind of exaltation is that? <BR/><BR/>And what good is exaltation for a population of 2? Don't you think God has something bigger in mind for His work than just two people for this amazing planet?Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-23974871572420088732007-11-04T05:26:00.000-06:002007-11-04T05:26:00.000-06:00T4x4No we did not exist before we were born. I hav...T4x4<BR/><BR/>No we did not exist before we were born. I have identified the Hebrew word for spirit in the OT that may be mis-represented in an earlier comment. To insinuate a ghostly state of pre-existent being is not Biblical. <BR/><BR/>With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other documents along with the Bible Old Testiment it can not longer be said that all Jews before Jesus Christ did not believe in the pre-existents of mans spirit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-92076870463773660272007-11-03T03:18:00.000-05:002007-11-03T03:18:00.000-05:00In terms of the eternal round and the straight pat...In terms of the eternal round and the straight path. I think of a straight path as one that does not waver. <BR/>Example. Try to draw a circle unassisted. Is it a perfect circle? Unless you have a very steady hand I would think not. Draw one with a compass. Is it a straight line? It's an eternal round isn't it? <BR/>That's my take on it.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703965785236123679noreply@blogger.com