tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post109530631960771177..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Joseph Smith and the Comoros Islands?Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-55598024503801420152016-05-18T13:01:41.815-05:002016-05-18T13:01:41.815-05:00A believing Mormon's need for evidence/ docume...A believing Mormon's need for evidence/ documentation for issues like this is a double standard. I think everyone can say Mormon's are to be admired for their passion and love of Joseph but in this thread here I see them chanting "show some evidence" and probably the most ironic statement a Mormon can utter "until the record is found it's just speculation."<br /><br />Please guys. Your piety is admirable, but you must start to see the fallacy inherent in your thinking. I am still a member of the church and I love the good influence it has had and continues to have upon me, but I am embarrassed at the number of people who are quick to dismiss evidence if it doesn't support their beliefs and adopt evidence if it does--even though there are no conclusive documents either way. <br /><br />WAKE UP, PLEASE! Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17115217731550501334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-57437005634501006862012-02-10T01:38:07.889-06:002012-02-10T01:38:07.889-06:00Oops. It's actually Comore, not Camore. Sorry!...Oops. It's actually Comore, not Camore. Sorry!Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29645974459432374262012-02-10T01:35:52.985-06:002012-02-10T01:35:52.985-06:00Here we have a 1748 map that shows one of the isla...Here we have a 1748 map that shows one of the islands of "Camore" and a place on it called "Meroni": http://culturalmormoncafeteria.blogspot.com/2010/10/comore-meroni.htmlRyannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-89361007817219815772010-07-17T13:34:17.578-05:002010-07-17T13:34:17.578-05:00JDD, I think was the second Anon was trying to say...JDD, I think was the second Anon was trying to say (if they don't answer for themselves) is that when you add the three components together (Moroni, Camora/Camorah, and buried treasure), you begin to need account for the coincidences. As was stated above in the original post, just the one name alone (Moroni OR Camora) would be harder to use as conclusive evidence of fraud. When you put the names Moroni and Camora/Camorah together, it becomes much more difficult. They're arguably the two most important names in the Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith story. NOW, add in the third element of buried treasure (by Captain Kidd and Moroni) and it becomes ludicrous. At least in my opinion. <br /><br />There ARE records (see the Joseph Smith Papers and contemporary accounts from those both FOR and AGAINST the Smith Family) of Joseph and his family seeking out the lost treasure of Captain Kidd in the New York state area. He had heard the stories of Kidd's exploits and new about his treasure. Kidd was executed for crimes committed near Moroni, Camora Island. So when one sees that the angel Moroni told Joseph about treasure buried in the Hill Camora, you have to stop and say, "What are the odds of these three things being connected with Captain Kidd AND - totally separately! - Joseph Smith?" Because, please remember: One IS historical and the other isn't, other than to the believer. One has physical proof, the other doesn't. <br /><br />Anon can answer for themself, but that is the way I read his/her posting. I was once a member and this was one (of many) issue that I couldn't argue myself out of. <br /><br />If your need for documentation is so strong, might I ask where the supporting documentation is for the veracity of the First Vision? Not that it did or didn't happen, but simply why was there not a record of it before 1831? Anywhere? Not a diary entry, family letter, newpaper article, court document, etc. No one has any record of the First Vision until a year AFTER the church was organized. Letters written about the restoration never mention it. His mother and other family members write about the golden plates, but no vision of deity. If you're so concerned about the lack of a document showing Moroni and Camora together, do you have the same concern for your church's lack of documentation? Probably not.<br /><br />Ultimately, it comes down to belief. Honestly ask yourself what your position would be if someone here DID provide the document you're asking for. Would it change anything for you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24962711492196209662010-07-17T13:33:33.522-05:002010-07-17T13:33:33.522-05:00JDD, I think was the second Anon was trying to say...JDD, I think was the second Anon was trying to say (if they don't answer for themselves) is that when you add the three components together (Moroni, Camora/Camorah, and buried treasure), you begin to need account for the coincidences. As was stated above in the original post, just the one name alone (Moroni OR Camora) would be harder to use as conclusive evidence of fraud. When you put the names Moroni and Camora/Camorah together, it becomes much more difficult. They're arguably the two most important names in the Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith story. NOW, add in the third element of buried treasure (by Captain Kidd and Moroni) and it becomes ludicrous. At least in my opinion. <br /><br />There ARE records (see the Joseph Smith Papers and contemporary accounts from those both FOR and AGAINST the Smith Family) of Joseph and his family seeking out the lost treasure of Captain Kidd in the New York state area. He had heard the stories of Kidd's exploits and new about his treasure. Kidd was executed for crimes committed near Moroni, Camora Island. So when one sees that the angel Moroni told Joseph about treasure buried in the Hill Camora, you have to stop and say, "What are the odds of these three things being connected with Captain Kidd AND - totally separately! - Joseph Smith?" Because, please remember: One IS historical and the other isn't, other than to the believer. One has physical proof, the other doesn't. <br /><br />Anon can answer for themself, but that is the way I read his/her posting. I was once a member and this was one (of many) issue that I couldn't argue myself out of. <br /><br />If your need for documentation is so strong, might I ask where the supporting documentation is for the veracity of the First Vision? Not that it did or didn't happen, but simply why was there not a record of it before 1831? Anywhere? Not a diary entry, family letter, newpaper article, court document, etc. No one has any record of the First Vision until a year AFTER the church was organized. Letters written about the restoration never mention it. His mother and other family members write about the golden plates, but no vision of deity. If you're so concerned about the lack of a document showing Moroni and Camora together, do you have the same concern for your church's lack of documentation? Probably not.<br /><br />Ultimately, it comes down to belief. Honestly ask yourself what your position would be if someone here DID provide the document you're asking for. Would it change anything for you?UTDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-85218845132786830762010-07-16T03:50:07.599-05:002010-07-16T03:50:07.599-05:00Anonymous, you make claims about Comoros and Moron...Anonymous, you make claims about Comoros and Moroni that you do not substantiate. I agree with the first Anonymous. Show me a document that has both Comoros and Moroni in it, which Joseph Smith could have had access to, and we can begin to discuss this possibility. If it really was common knowledge that Moroni was a settlement in Comoros, there will surely be a record of that knowledge somewhere. Until that record is found, it's just speculation.JDDhttp://www.allaboutmormons.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-73059760431668501682008-10-31T16:02:00.000-05:002008-10-31T16:02:00.000-05:00I wonder if someone who had read from the Book of ...I wonder if someone who had read from the Book of Mormon had picked the name of that town off the back of his head.Rovin' Rickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05707575943138743367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-45414480579655646642008-09-14T04:47:00.000-05:002008-09-14T04:47:00.000-05:00In fact, these names were known in Joseph's day, m...In fact, these names were known in Joseph's day, mainly due to adventure stories about the pirate Captain Kidd (buried treasure anyone?) who visited the Comoros. Most damning is the fact that at the time the Book of Mormon was written, the name of the country was spelled Camora (or sometimes Comora). When the original Book of Mormon was published, it too spelled Cumorah "Camorah." So people who think in terms of odds, statistics and chance find it hard to believe that Moroni, Camora/Camorah and buried treasure have absolutely no connection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-16167442678609968462007-05-20T15:06:00.000-05:002007-05-20T15:06:00.000-05:00The antis think this is some of the best evidence ...The antis think this is some of the best evidence against the Book of Mormon - and it's largely based on hearsay and trumped-up rumors. Show me something in print that Joseph Smith had access to that showed Comora and Moroni on the same page. Moroni was not the capital until long after the Book of Mormon was published and was generally not mentioned. In fact, Comoros wasn't mentioned much either. Show some evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com