tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post2125799454527321807..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Staying Sober: One of the Many Benefits of the LDS Word of WisdomJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-13251196174295840292007-12-18T15:22:00.000-06:002007-12-18T15:22:00.000-06:00Hey bro...if you stand on a chair, you CAN touch t...Hey bro...if you stand on a chair, you CAN touch the ceiling. <BR/><BR/>This idea seems to be funny or easily dismissed to you. Do you think perhaps this could be a simple expression of a more profound insight someone had about life, or themselves? <BR/><BR/>you'd better consider the lilies and be careful about making light of seemingly simple insights. you seem to have it all figured out though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-12661742683350303372007-11-25T07:17:00.000-06:002007-11-25T07:17:00.000-06:00I couldn't let that comment go without responding....I couldn't let that comment go without responding. The WOW is not an eternal principle. It was not made a commandment until long after Joseph Smith died so there's no hypocrisy, no matter what he did. Jesus also drank wine (I don't buy the argument that it was non/low-alcohol). The WOW is a commandment given to us in our time for reasons specific to our time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-8951330032399120882007-11-24T05:36:00.000-06:002007-11-24T05:36:00.000-06:00Of course learning that Joseph Smith never followe...Of course learning that Joseph Smith never followed the WOW always made me wonder why we had to. I guess in retrospect, it was a great lesson to us to "Do as I say, Not as I do".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-36346851076507816962007-11-19T12:44:00.000-06:002007-11-19T12:44:00.000-06:00Drinking is a problem no matter where it is. I ha...Drinking is a problem no matter where it is. I have been to many a work Christmas party where at least one person has been so plastered they embarrass themselves, once to the point of quitting the next week. <BR/><BR/>Growing up a non-member, and parting lots in high school (since all my friends had graduated when I was in grade 10) I lived the "high" life. Substance abuse of both drugs and alcohol did nothing but destroy my life and relationships I had. <BR/><BR/>Even after joining the church, my wife and I are still close friends with many of those friends, but now having a sober view see how much those things ruin lives. Perhaps in moderation alcohol is not such a destructive tool, but in the society that we live in today, nothing is ever taken in moderation. The nation’s obesity rate is a great example of that.Michael Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03862802523377678166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-48926007907585988442007-11-18T15:43:00.000-06:002007-11-18T15:43:00.000-06:00Here's a sample comment from a student at UW Madis...Here's a <A HREF="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-wisconsin-madison/29103-any-opinions-about-sellery-witte.html" REL="nofollow">sample comment from a student at UW Madison</A> regarding the Sellery and Witte dorms: <I>They are fondly known to students here as "the projects". They have the smallest rooms on campus, noisy parties going on M-F until 3am, are generally pretty dirty (stains on rugs, walls, ect.) and <B>I've never gone a weekend without seeing people passed out on the stairs.</B></I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-48769848076506430472007-11-18T08:21:00.000-06:002007-11-18T08:21:00.000-06:00And DJ, the statement expressing concern about the...And DJ, the statement expressing concern about the peer pressure to engage in immorality was a general one, not about Wisconsin per se. Talk to some students in the dorms. Look at the national stats. There are serious problems. Students in coed dorms who resist the pressure are in a minority by any measure.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-86129170420313980222007-11-18T08:10:00.000-06:002007-11-18T08:10:00.000-06:00Look, I love Wisconsin, but we have to admit that ...Look, I love Wisconsin, but we have to admit that our campuses, like most places, unfortunately, have a serious alcohol problem. The weekend binge drinking is pathetic. 59% in the past 2 weeks?? <BR/><BR/>I softened a couple of statements. Sorry I so offended you!<BR/><BR/>But I'm surprised at the offense you took to the comment on parties. I think you misinterpreted it and took unnecessary offense.<BR/><BR/>Consider this sentence: "<I>In most democracies</I>, when an an elected leader suddenly starts talking about assuming total power in the event of any kind of emergency, the democracy is about to become a dictatorship." That's a very reasonable statement. It does not mean that this kind of thing is happening or has happened in most democracies, but indicates what the result would be in most cases WHEN (like IF) it happened. That kind of thing is NOT happening in most democracies right now - just in the United States. Please, Britain, don't be offended. <BR/><BR/>My statement about most parties was a joke that you misinterpreted. At most parties in Wisconsin or anywhere else, "WHEN" people get so juiced up that they are dancing on tables and chairs, they are more likely to hit the floor than the ceiling. That doesn't mean that this happens at most parties! I've been to many parties here, LDS and non-LDS, and it's only happened at about 60% of them. Well, I can't remember anything about the others, so the number may be higher.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83707431513710160462007-11-18T06:08:00.000-06:002007-11-18T06:08:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-27183814631510602792007-11-18T06:01:00.000-06:002007-11-18T06:01:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-89816475031531726952007-11-18T02:51:00.000-06:002007-11-18T02:51:00.000-06:00This comment is "out of line".Of course, at most p...This comment is "out of line".<BR/><BR/>Of course, at most parties out here in Wisconsin, when people start standing on chairs and tables, it's usually not the ceiling they will be encountering next. When they wake up, they are always somewhere lower than where they began. <BR/><BR/>At most parties?-----I have lived here 55 years and never seen the above. I deer hunt with 6 non-members of the Church. I will ask them how many have attended parties like that. <BR/><BR/>DaleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29518709670288137932007-11-18T02:46:00.000-06:002007-11-18T02:46:00.000-06:00There is nothing like contempt for the good people...There is nothing like contempt for the good people of Wisconsin. <BR/>When you take surveys of kids you have to expect a lot of "stretching" of the truth. <BR/><BR/>I have not stood on a table in years. <BR/>DJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-26081578627956362092007-11-17T20:06:00.000-06:002007-11-17T20:06:00.000-06:00I agree with so much of this thread I don't know w...I agree with so much of this thread I don't know where to start.<BR/><BR/>Jayleen, I agree that it's strange how there is no outcry on this issue, considering far more people die due to drunk driving than die in terrorist attacks (the same can be said of homicide, by the way).<BR/><BR/>My wife's biological dad was an alcoholic so I'm familiar (well, as much as I can be without going through it myself) with the negative effects of alcoholism, particularly on children. My wife made a similar commitment as Anonymous to avoid alcohol, and she was not a Mormon at the time. It's comforting to know that there are people of different faiths that stand by their principles, and we Mormons are not alone.<BR/><BR/>I too live in WI and my wife grew up here. There is definately a culture of drinking here. That's not to minimize the problem in other places. But sometimes Mormons like to paint the picture as black and white. Either your stone-cold sober or you're a drunk. My wife's parents (her mom and adopted dad) drink, but I don't think I've ever seen them drunk. Personally (and may I emphasize that this is my own view and I don't know how doctrinal it is), I don't think that it's a sin to drink if you haven't made a commitment (such as by becoming a Mormon) to not drink, assuming that you don't get drunk (However you want to define that, I suppose). Maybe that's just my way of enabling myself to be around my wife's family without judging them.<BR/><BR/>(I apologize for all the parenthesis. It's a bad habit of mine)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-63504826694199401482007-11-17T13:09:00.000-06:002007-11-17T13:09:00.000-06:00Drunk Driving is such a serious issue, I often won...Drunk Driving is such a serious issue, I often wonder why more people aren't having 'stop drinking' marches or 'stop drinking' rallies. Drunk driving deaths are only the tip of the iceberg. People's lives are ruined every day by drinking from losing their jobs to family violence. <BR/><BR/>in 2005 16,885 people were killed in drunk driving accidents alone. <BR/><BR/>Here is a link from the Centers for Disease Control for the statistics: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-91281432142484708632007-11-17T12:42:00.000-06:002007-11-17T12:42:00.000-06:00Thank you for your kind comments."...two non-LDS s...Thank you for your kind comments.<BR/><BR/>"...two <B>non-LDS</B> students from Appleton..."<BR/><BR/>Don't know how you could have made that clearer to me! Just goes to show that alcohol avoidance doesn't necessarily mean stellar reading comprehension. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-32978681674690658432007-11-17T10:58:00.000-06:002007-11-17T10:58:00.000-06:00Wonderful comment - thank you for a great example....Wonderful comment - thank you for a great example. <BR/><BR/>The two girls I praised are actually not Mormons. Sorry if that wasn't clear. But they have earned some serious respect from my Mormon sons and I'm very proud of them. I wouldn't say that they are treated like outcasts - they may be winning a lot of respect from others, as you did - but the pressure is intense. Saying "no" is not the way to gain instant acceptance among your peers, but as you noted, over time that can change. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again for sharing your views, and many thanks for the example you have set!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-10840818739960322912007-11-17T10:20:00.000-06:002007-11-17T10:20:00.000-06:00This post is written from a non-LDS perspective.I ...This post is written from a non-LDS perspective.<BR/><BR/>I went through four years of college without touching alcohol at a school with "values" similar to the University you describe. My reasons for teetotaling were numerous, but chief among them is alcoholism runs in the family. I didn't want to go down that path.<BR/><BR/>So I never touched an adult beverage, and I never once engaged in unmarried sex. I never tried to hide my beliefs; I stood up for what I thought was right.<BR/><BR/>An interesting thing happened. I made many "jock" friends who engaged in a lot of the activities I avoided. They didn't view me as something out of the "Dark Ages." Instead, they actually admired and respected me for it. The key was being friendly to them, stating my beliefs so they knew where I stood, and then going on about our lives. Some of them remain friends almost twenty years later.<BR/><BR/>That the two girls you describe are treated like outcasts is unfortunate, but not necessarily the way things have to be. Maybe there's an LDS dimension that I'm missing - perhaps they are treated as they are because they're thought of as those "nutty Mormons" (not that I would agree with that view) rather than their desire not to drink and sleep around. But I honestly think that if they make an attempt to be engaging without embracing the lifestyle, everyone might be better off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com