tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post5339575768760105793..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: A Cure for Deadly Optimism and a Key for Preserving Freedom: The Book of MormonJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-990419598845286302010-04-07T16:36:14.077-05:002010-04-07T16:36:14.077-05:00I understand the RightWing/Libertarian/Conservativ...I understand the RightWing/Libertarian/Conservative position presented in some of these comments. I respectfully disagree with it. <br />I think President Obama is a good and decent man trying to solve problems. I am LDS and I plan to vote for his re-election if he wants it. <br />So far I like what he is doing. He is a reasonable, moderate, and intelligent man and is doing a great job!Alannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-59035273736596592962010-04-05T01:52:31.231-05:002010-04-05T01:52:31.231-05:00>Obama is not tied in with the Communist Party....>Obama is not tied in with the Communist Party.<br /><br />True. At least not directly and visibly tied in with the Communist Party, anyway.<br /><br />His ideas/philosophy, on the other hand, are thoroughly totalitarian-collectivist, and diametrically opposed to the cause of liberty, and completely incompatible with LDS doctrine.<br /><br />Obama, just as Lucifer did when he presented his plan, attempts to cloak slavery in the guise of good deeds. Lucifer's plan was not to force us to do evil. It was to force us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc. That in and of itself made his plan evil and immoral. Lucifer continues his war against God now, and he has plenty of politicians (not just Obama and his ilk) more than willing to do his bidding.<br /><br />Personally, I prefer the Savior's plan: liberty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-30445488711958418572010-03-19T03:16:17.597-05:002010-03-19T03:16:17.597-05:00"I've long tried to balance my inherent p..."I've long tried to balance my inherent pessimism with President Hinckley's urgings to be more positive, and I think you've hit on exactly the way to do it: focus on the long-term victories, but don't deny or be silent about the many dark things in our world that threaten us now." <br /><br />That is one way to try keep a healthy balance between pessimism and optimism: be positive for the future but pessimist about the current state of things.<br /><br />Personally, I think one can be a pessimist and optimist at the same time. You don't have to think about the present versus the future. You can hold both concepts in the present. <br /><br />There really is a middle ground between "all is well in Zion" which is the extreme and dangerous kind of optimism and "everything is going to hell in a hand basket" kind of pessimism.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11927889966152627253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-72351411601261138312010-03-16T01:17:40.274-05:002010-03-16T01:17:40.274-05:00I'm wondering not so much about which groups a...I'm wondering not so much about which groups are secret combination, but what kind of conduct might be like that of secret combinations.<br /><br />Such combinations in the Book of Mormon were created "to get power and gain" (Ether 8:22) and they were made up of "friends and kindreds." (3 Nephi 7:6)<br /><br />So, I would imagine those with the same spirit as those in secret combinations might remind each other to be loyal to each other as they seek to improve their lots in life. How worthy of merit their buddy might be is not the question, but rather whether the buddy is part of their group. <br /><br />And, we learn the members "would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstance that they should be placed." (Helaman 6:21)<br /><br />That verse, too, suggests an "I've- got-your-backside" attitude without regard to whether their buddy's backside deserves being protected.<br /><br />Friendship comes before merit.<br /><br />And, it means supporting the other person while they do harm to others. Helaman 6:21 goes on to say they supported each other "that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings."<br /><br />As I write this, I find myself looking at Helaman 7:21 by accident, instead of 6:21. Helaman 7:21, although not mentioning secret combinations, might still be talking about them. Nephi was caught praying and he tells the people how they had forsaken God, "to get gain, to be praised of men . . . for the which ye do murder, and plunder and steal and bear false witness against your neighbor."<br /><br />What a summation of what I have said.John Jacksonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-46699640518723286202010-03-15T16:35:49.049-05:002010-03-15T16:35:49.049-05:00thank you--
good thoughts--
*I* would rather see...thank you--<br /><br />good thoughts--<br /><br />*I* would rather seek the truth, even if I have some momentary fear when I find out what it is.<br /><br />Being optomistic without a foundation for the optomism seems kind of sad to me--<br /><br />faith without God--<br /><br />I suppose some can do it, but I need a Supreme Being in Whom to have faith--<br /><br />not just a grin on my face?<br /><br />Taking the leap of faith beyond the left/right paradigm and the Republicans/Democrats is a big leap for many people, but the rewards are great--<br /><br />get beyond parties and presidents and look for truth and freedom, I say.<br /><br />Onward and upward--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-59499509866076523832010-03-15T16:28:30.576-05:002010-03-15T16:28:30.576-05:00Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I think t...Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I think the solution is to not confuse wishful thinking with optimism. Keep your feet on the ground while looking up.Popsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-37849741324555924322010-03-15T09:00:30.095-05:002010-03-15T09:00:30.095-05:00Mitch, don't be silly. If you aren't infor...Mitch, don't be silly. If you aren't informed about the people in power then it is you who have your head in the sand. This is not a fantasy world. You can't take everyone at face value. You can't be gullible. You have to do research. There is footage of the President's people saying very un-American things. Don't be so partisan. I'm not saying that the president is un american. I'm saying that he surrounds himself with people who are. William Ayers was acquainted with our leader in the past. That man is evil.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-12906047739880670752010-03-15T08:44:58.533-05:002010-03-15T08:44:58.533-05:00Mafia, skull and bones, Soviet government: none of...Mafia, skull and bones, Soviet government: none of them is secret. Yes, they started out as secret cabals, but as an organization grows in power, it becomes leaky and can't maintain too much secrecy once a certain threshold of power is reached. The Book of Mormon warns against secret combinations, but to suggest that it contains practical advice for rooting them out seems a bit of an overstatement. That's like saying that it contains practical advice for building a ship or waging bronze age (or is it iron age?) warfare. <br /><br />By the way, would the Sons of Liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Liberty) qualify as a secret combination?Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17476870004225466038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-27488249686116826132010-03-15T04:30:07.312-05:002010-03-15T04:30:07.312-05:00Thank you Jeff for your post and your comments. An...Thank you Jeff for your post and your comments. And Mitch I know where your fingers are too they are helping keep your body balanced to make sure your head doesn't pop out of the sand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24806333267756622622010-03-14T21:37:39.361-05:002010-03-14T21:37:39.361-05:00What connections? It's silly to say he is sur...What connections? It's silly to say he is surrounded by anti-american people. I know where my fingers are. Do you?Mitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-10396650090337231462010-03-14T20:39:27.568-05:002010-03-14T20:39:27.568-05:00It is not wise to have fear. It is wise to be info...It is not wise to have fear. It is wise to be informed and prepared. If you trust everyone that doesn't make you smart. That makes you gullible and easily taken advantage of. @Mitch, do we just ignore the Presidents connections and stick our fingers in our ears?Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67976062549116709152010-03-14T17:23:10.763-05:002010-03-14T17:23:10.763-05:00Mitch...perhaps O. is chained to the left instead ...Mitch...perhaps O. is chained to the left instead of tied to it.Nathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-13016853547817639792010-03-14T14:55:31.087-05:002010-03-14T14:55:31.087-05:00Very silly. Obama is not tied in with the Communi...Very silly. Obama is not tied in with the Communist Party. Maybe I could sell you a bridge? <br /><br />As funny as your comment can be, it is a little scarey that you actually believe it. Yikes! Wouldn't want to sit next to you at the Ward Dinner Party. What could we talk about?Mitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-90374040012886937802010-03-14T10:07:46.220-05:002010-03-14T10:07:46.220-05:00So what are to say when Obama himself was mentored...So what are to say when Obama himself was mentored by Saul Alinsky, a Communist Party member who used community organizing as a way to manipulate people for radical revolutionary ends (see his Rules for Radicals)? He is associated with William Ayers, who was part of a "secret combination" of anti-US terrorists. He has chosen "czars" such as Van Jones who said he is a communist - no McCarthy allegations here, Van SAYS he is; Anita Dunn, who said Mao was one of her favorite political figures whom she looks to for guidance (see <a href="http://spectator.org/blog/2009/10/20/anita-dunn-claims-mao-praise-w" rel="nofollow">this article</a>), Ron Bloom who approvingly quoted Mao; Carol Browner who has long been a member of Socialists International; John Holdren, science czar who called for radical big-government population control and also quoted Mao (see <a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZjU1OGIxN2JjMmRiNzM1YzMxMWNjZDM5NDBkMDQ2NzY=" rel="nofollow">this article</a>, and others dedicated to what the Council on Foreign Relations has called "an end run around national sovereignty" and the whole Marxist dream of a one-world government in which the US is torn down and made a subject of "global law" under the United Nations. These are dangerous, anti-Amerrican radicals, tied to various cabals as well as open organizations with agendas harmful to American liberty. Folks, food storage alone ain't gonna stop these radicals. Throw them out and speak out while you can. Congress can use checks and balances to restore Constitutional Law, if we get rid of the Statists and radicals who trample on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24170433641903104152010-03-13T21:08:04.250-06:002010-03-13T21:08:04.250-06:00Anon, leftists don't have a problem with seein...Anon, leftists don't have a problem with seeing fraud in other people. Silly of you to state otherwise. You must have your head wrapped around a warp idea that righties are more moral than the left. I thought morals was based on action, not words.Mitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-15224060958211663382010-03-13T18:30:46.363-06:002010-03-13T18:30:46.363-06:00Leftists have no trouble believing that oil compan...Leftists have no trouble believing that oil companies and big companies in general are conspiring and defrauding the people, and that may be right. But why is it so hard to believe that such fraud can't occur among politicians and the mega-wealthy well-connected folks that gravitate toward positions of power in D.C. and Wall Street?<br /><br />Great place to learn more: Shadows of Power by James Perloff. Well documented. Ignore at your own peril. Anthony Sutton is the one who examined and reported on the once secret membership records of Skull and Bones, BTW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83527550809390871512010-03-13T11:17:45.777-06:002010-03-13T11:17:45.777-06:00Jeff, you should also say this:
"If someone ...Jeff, you should also say this: <br />"If someone asks us to turn over some or all of our national sovereignty to any individual or organization, including the United Nations, we should oppose that person." The United Nations is dominated by Marxists and is closely aligned with the goals of international socialism and the one-world government despots. Looking to it for "peace" is national suicide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-71575564836747720162010-03-13T11:01:53.990-06:002010-03-13T11:01:53.990-06:00As for the inability to do anything about secret c...As for the inability to do anything about secret combinations, the Book of Mormon gives us practical tools. They were able to be penetrated, identified, and stamped out. Individuals and agendas could be rooted out. Patterns of behavior were identified. And when we see these trends and activities, we are to take vigorous action. I suggest re-reading the Book of Mormon with this issue in mind. <br /><br />In our day, we have learned about the Mafia through careful investigations. We have members of communist conspiratorial movements defect and reveal plans and secret agendas (Yuri Bezmenov and Anatoli Golitsin, for example). Secret records of Skull and Bones were swiped at Yale. We've even had elitists in support of some of these organizations come out and admit that such cabals exist and are influential, but good in their opinions (C. Quigley in Tragedy and Hope, David Rockefeller in his 2002 Memoirs). We've had the benefit of the Venona Papers revealing that many people in the US State Dept. really were working with or for the Soviet government in McCarthy's day. There is a lot that can be learned. <br /><br />In terms of practical efforts, for future reference, if a political candidate or appointee comes out openly in favor of Marxism and says they look to Stalin or any other totalitarian as an example, I think we have a duty to learn the lesson of the Kingmen in the Book of Mormon and oppose them, because the king-like governments they impose tend to bring great calamity, no matter how many times the New York Times praises the revolution or tells us that the totalitarian wannabe is just an agrarian reformer and nothing to be afraid of.<br /><br />Likewise, if someone says their vision of the future is one of totalitarianism or of national socialism, I think we have a duty to say "No". Further, if someone tramples upon the inspired constraints of the US Constitution, even in the name of a good cause, I think we need to remove that person form office. Keeping government limited is the key to keeping totalitarian threats off our backs. There are intelligent madmen who want totalitarian power, which is why most nations in history and on our globe today struggle under oppressive governments that loot the people, debauch their nation's currency, and live in opulence while the people grow poor. Loss of liberty is not a paranoid threat that could never happen - it's what usually happens unless a free people remains vigilant. And yes, unless a free people remains a moral people able to discern good from evil, and with the courage to shun the lure of voting themselves wealth taken from someone else's labor. So yes, I also agree that we need to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ and prepare on a very personal level. But that may not be enough to preserve national liberty.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-2561300448492791202010-03-13T10:57:27.044-06:002010-03-13T10:57:27.044-06:00Doc, seems like when conservatives or even alleged...Doc, seems like when conservatives or even alleged conservatives like Bush are in charge, fear and loathing is the only acceptable reaction by the left. Fear of Christian influence, fear of Christian takeover of government, fear of a "vast rightwing conspiracy," etc. And now that we're about to turn over vast new powers into the hands of those who raised red flags of fear before, we're supposed to believe that fear is the great evil and we should just trust those who are taking us far beyond the limits of the Constitution? Now fear is the real enemy?<br /><br />My memory of historical events isn't all that great sometimes, but as I recall, the reason the Twin Towers fell in New York City wasn't exactly due to excessive fear among the deluded masses of America. Seems like there was some kind of concerted, planned attack that was bred in some kind of secret society. We have learned a little about the Al Qaeda organization as a secret society. Now you are right in part about the problem of fear, as fear of terrorists is being used as an excuse to ramp up government more than ever to keep track of law abiding citizens, while spending us into oblivion with unnecessary wars on the other side of the planet. It is the permanent loss of liberty in the hands of power-hungry men that must be feared most. You know something is wrong with the whole war on terror scenario when through it all we have kept our borders largely wide open so any terrorist that wants to can stroll across the border with relatively low risk. Bizarre. So what's the purpose of this not-quite-real war on terror? Perhaps it's part of an agenda for power. Fair question to wonder about, IMO.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-42025467726230071692010-03-12T21:22:09.343-06:002010-03-12T21:22:09.343-06:00Jeff, I don't comment here as much as I should...Jeff, I don't comment here as much as I should, but this one really made a deep impression. <br /><br />I've long tried to balance my inherent pessimism with President Hinckley's urgings to be more positive, and I think you've hit on exactly the way to do it: focus on the long-term victories, but don't deny or be silent about the many dark things in our world that threaten us now. <br /><br />You're right about something else that too often goes ignored among we Latter-day Saints: the Book of Mormon is massively pessimistic. I think Hugh Nibley once said something like, "For an individual willing to repent, the message of the Book of Mormon is positive; for everyone else, it's all just gloom and doom."Hustonhttp://gentlyhewstone.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-42247011007491295952010-03-12T20:39:32.309-06:002010-03-12T20:39:32.309-06:00Personally, I see the warnings of secret combinati...Personally, I see the warnings of secret combinations in the Book of Mormon completely devoid of any advice on how to fight them other than through preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and preparing in self defense for the siege.<br /><br /> I also see a clear symbolic representation of the fruits of the way of the adversary vs. the savior. Frankly, this is THE DIFFERENCE between faith and fear. I am saddened by how many think a vote of no confidence in others represents faith of anykind. Your mob mentality scares me, even more because I know you are all otherwise basically good people, but can be driven to the dark side because you are convinced anyone who disagrees with you is Satan.Dochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17628872823229918836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-92117536657796534662010-03-12T20:19:06.711-06:002010-03-12T20:19:06.711-06:00Heres then Elder Benson in some fearmongering of h...Heres then Elder Benson in some fearmongering of his own. As a Mormon I believe theres good in all but some choose the dark side. :) I therefore chose to be vigilant in guarding what I love.. my freedom. Thanks again Jeff for your vigilance. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJNMcD2IY_kE Pobtsuashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003010439633152569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-88257564291136225302010-03-12T13:32:21.583-06:002010-03-12T13:32:21.583-06:00Great post Jeff. Hey Doc.. if Im reading your pos...Great post Jeff. Hey Doc.. if Im reading your post right you're saying Jeff and many others are just creating fear with these kinds of arguments and this is unAmerican. Sorry if I misread it. It baffles me though, the whole fearmongering argument that I seem to be hearing a lot of. Since when was questioning our governments motives and actions fearmongering. Especially with the Book of Mormon insights to these days. Yes.. Hitler was a huge fearmonger.. and he became powerful because of it. But didnt all those fearmongers who opposed him end up sleeping on wood beds in a cozy somewhat crowded camp, or end up resting 6 feet under. Or all those Stalin haters that fearmongered as well.. got a free vacation to a gulag resort. Mao – 60 million fearmongers, taken care of. Thank goodness with all of our technology, history will no longer repeat itself, right? Again.. it so baffles me that raising concerns is unAmerican and equated to fearmongering. So the question Ive got is when is it appropriate to question ones government. And if there is an appropriate time, how does one go about doing it without being a fearmonger. Is having hope in the future mean sticking my head in the sand and saying “God, I believe in you.. make it all better”. Or do we actually have some responsibility here?E Pobtsuashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01003010439633152569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24985315567111375872010-03-12T10:53:49.696-06:002010-03-12T10:53:49.696-06:0020th century democide (death by government):
http...20th century democide (death by government):<br /><br />http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-68934905234137569892010-03-12T08:18:44.322-06:002010-03-12T08:18:44.322-06:00Doc, aren't you LDS? How do you reconcile that...Doc, aren't you LDS? How do you reconcile that view with the "fear" that the Book of Mormon teaches toward evil men in power and the rabid fear of secret combinations taught by Mormon and Moroni?<br /><br />So we should not worry about enemies, about threats to liberty, about power-hungry men seizing power or Madoff-like criminals taking our property? If the Germans had been LESS trusting in big government and state socialism ("national socialism" is what they called it) and more fearful about maniacs taking power over them, it would have been spared great horror. It is big, oppressive government that is the source of genocide and terror, not citizens seeking to protect personal liberty for all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com