tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post6522734608475733008..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Are You Protecting Your Child from the Risk of Suicide?Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-17515431517291452772007-10-27T18:36:00.000-05:002007-10-27T18:36:00.000-05:00Anonymous,Yes, I understood that. But, (and it's ...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I understood that. But, (and it's a BIG BUT) the link is between suicide (as clearly stated in the title) AND violent games.<BR/><BR/>My argument is that the link isn't so much to do with violent games AND suicide, but violent games AND violence IN suicide.<BR/><BR/>In my (limited) time of working with who families as a family therapist, I can say with certainty that violent video games are not in direct correlation with suicide. Suicides run MUCH MUCH deeper than mere video-games; don't misunderstand, they certainly add as part of the equation. But suicides are related with low self-esteem from a result of bullying, from neglect, from physical/sexual and/or emotional abuse.<BR/><BR/>But yes, I do understand what you are saying and I have taken what you said into consideration =)NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-80068183054405617482007-10-20T01:44:00.000-05:002007-10-20T01:44:00.000-05:00NM,I think the connection that was tiring to be ma...NM,<BR/>I think the connection that was tiring to be made was the isolation and closing off young people do and how parents need to keep in touch or on top of their kids lives not that the games do or always drive kids to such actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-43868229933507596102007-10-19T12:54:00.000-05:002007-10-19T12:54:00.000-05:00Hi Anonymous (8:29 AM, October 19, 2007),Can I ask...Hi Anonymous (8:29 AM, October 19, 2007),<BR/><BR/>Can I ask you something? What is it that you did/did not do that made you feel 'not worthy'? <BR/><BR/>Thank you =)<BR/><BR/>NatNMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-62523885984017941642007-10-19T10:29:00.000-05:002007-10-19T10:29:00.000-05:00Jeff,My parents didn't allow video games but my st...Jeff,<BR/>My parents didn't allow video games but my struggle with suicidal thoughts/actions came not because of that but because I never felt I would ever be 'worthy' enough to be what my very LDS parents and what the LDS Church expected of me. That was at least my experience as a teenager.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-13088003201101016522007-10-18T08:43:00.000-05:002007-10-18T08:43:00.000-05:00Jeff, I don't quite see the correlation between vi...Jeff, <BR/><BR/>I don't <I>quite</I> see the correlation between violence in video games and suicide. The intent to commit suicide, in my mind, runs at a deeper level than mere video games. <BR/><BR/>It does however, reflect how sad a state families are when they allow their children to play such games. To me, issues such as neglect, lack of communication, apathy and even abuse come into mind; and violent video games are just a product of the lack of family dynamics - something that existed before-hand.<BR/><BR/>I don't know, this is just an opinion of course, but I think that the subject of violence in video games have closer links for violence IN suicide rather than violent games AND suicide. The reason why I say this (and this is an informed opinion), is that the children who I work alongside whose intention is to end their life usually stem from much, much deeper issues. Issues such as sexual/physical/emotional abuse that they have received from their own parents, strangers, or close family friends and relatives.<BR/><BR/>Just my two cents' worth...NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-16090959551824728022007-10-15T08:27:00.000-05:002007-10-15T08:27:00.000-05:00Is it a coincidence that two Apostles addressed th...<I>Is it a coincidence that two Apostles addressed the harm donbe by playing video games in this most recent Conference?</I><BR/><BR/>No, they probably discussed it beforehand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-28408443398460365452007-10-15T07:51:00.000-05:002007-10-15T07:51:00.000-05:00Zera, thanks for the note! I attended Church in La...Zera, thanks for the note! I attended Church in Las Vegas last October and met a Pulsipher family. Actually, Brother Pulsipher, former mission president of Micronesia, was from St. George just visiting a missionary's homecoming. If you're related, say hi!<BR/><BR/>I'm so glad you made it past the challenges you were facing. Thanks for sharing!<BR/><BR/>I would say that there are many things that can contribute to various social problems. I don't think video games are the major factor by any means for suicide or crime. But there have been some studies suggesting that the effect is not something to ignore. My main point is that parents need to be involved - and as you imply, good parenting means much more than just paying attention to the media their kids are using. Love, nurturing, personal involvement, sympathy, concern, etc., are far more important than, say, freaking out over the violence in Halo. <BR/><BR/>I agree that Halo and many other games have a lot of good-versus-evil symbolism, but recall that when Peter got out his sword and started hacking at the enemy in his effort to defend Christianity, Christ said "Enough!" and had him put away his sword. I don't think blasting infidels with plasma pistols and frag grenades is the way we want to invite all to come unto Christ. :) Halo's imagery might be better suited to the extremist fringes of some other religions, but I don't think it's quite at home with <I>true</I> Christianity.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-17786924606234669332007-10-15T05:23:00.000-05:002007-10-15T05:23:00.000-05:00Even the games with good and evil and morals behin...Even the games with good and evil and morals behind it can cause harm. For me the evil was exciting and there are always those that will go after the evil. Video games are just one more things that needs to be watch by parents. When kids are having problems some times they use video games, music, bad friends: ect., you name it to go off the deep end. I think why any such distractions are talked about by church leaders is to keep us reminded to stay on top of our duties as parents and members. No one thing will always cause evil but there are a lot of things that can lead some young person that is having problems to do harmful things. The church leaders are advising that we keep them ingaged and active in good social events and to becareful about letting them get to isolated or into activities that might lead them to do harm. We can always say that such things as video games did not harm me but it's about the kids that it does harm to that we need to watch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-83683708967424034982007-10-15T03:31:00.000-05:002007-10-15T03:31:00.000-05:00Dear JeffI highly disagree with video games contri...Dear Jeff<BR/><BR/>I highly disagree with video games contributing to suicide. If anything it's prolonging the inevitable due to poor parenting and a lack of nurturing from friends or family. When I was 15 until I was about 16 I was very suicidal video games are what helped me through it because no one else recognized the signs and I hid them very well. Some games are evil but violent game, does not equal, evil game. Halo is a perfect example of this the game is violent but the story behind it have very good morals and is basically a classic retelling of good versus evil, and the latest installment even has a lot of Christian symbolism in it. Video Games are todays strawmen, remember rock music was also thought of to be exactly the same. Parents instead of parenting would blame everything on rock music. Many studies even proved that it effected the behavior of those who listened to it. Now we realize that while these things can contribute to the behavior that it really comes down to the way the person is being raised. There will always be people more susceptible to harming others and while video game may help encourage that behavior the question should be why it is affecting them in the first place. straw men are always dangerous, and I have yet to see God use one because they always take the focus off what is really wrong. I do agree with one thing though, like all media there are some video games that come straight into being from the mind of the adversary, someone already mentioned the GTA, and Manhunt. I can say these are at least the worse offenders so far, and they still do not come close to the level that cinema has taken it to. Make no mistake though video games are less passive that is exactly why they have less of an effect then film. That which is more passive has a greater effect on the subconscious, and that which isn't deals more with the conscious mind, thus the less passive the more likely something is to affect you and a behavioral level. What I'm saying I parents should know what their Kids are doing and people should stop blaming games for them not doing it. Sorry for the Essay. <BR/>Zera Pulsipher LV NV<BR/><BR/>P.S.<BR/>Thank you for helping save my testimony when I was about 17 and ran into the Book of Abraham bull.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-2577881935108994692007-10-15T01:20:00.000-05:002007-10-15T01:20:00.000-05:00Thirty five years ago I thought of suicide. Not a ...Thirty five years ago I thought of suicide. Not a very happy camper when I was growing up. A number of kids commited suicide in our school and attempted suicide. No video games growing up. There is a lot going on in the human mind that can cause such thoughts and actions. It is a good message to parents, schools and friends to keep alert to such things. It is hard for some people to deal with people that are having such thoughts and actions. There is also so much more crazy things going on in our society today but people are people and go through some hard times. We just need to do our best to try and help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-63563947989542522482007-10-14T22:31:00.000-05:002007-10-14T22:31:00.000-05:00This thread reminds me of that pernicious evil tha...This thread reminds me of that pernicious evil that Brigham Young/George Q. Cannon spoke so vehemently against in the 19th century. <BR/><BR/>The novel.PassTheChipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06072641781067595586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-16875838194878806482007-10-14T21:44:00.000-05:002007-10-14T21:44:00.000-05:00Note to the world: Anon's last note is a powerful ...Note to the world: Anon's last note is a powerful example of the incoherent thinking and lost reading comprehension that can come from smoking pot. Stay away from weed!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-86818745210973058502007-10-14T21:12:00.000-05:002007-10-14T21:12:00.000-05:00Notes to self:- Stop having fun. Life is sufferin...Notes to self:<BR/><BR/>- Stop having fun. Life is suffering or at the very least, not fun. No more reading, movies, athletics, music, conversation. Come to think of it, I should hermit up in that cave up in the hills.<BR/><BR/>- Stop smoking pot. <BR/><BR/>- Stop laughing from the smoking video games is like playing pot (wait, did I just fat finger that? must be the pot/video games. Wow, I'm having fun!) comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-39110491672807532342007-10-14T21:01:00.000-05:002007-10-14T21:01:00.000-05:00Is it a coincidence that two Apostles addressed th...Is it a coincidence that two Apostles addressed the harm donbe by playing video games in this most recent Conference?<BR/><BR/>First, Elder Perry, in the Priesthood Session, said, "More and more, young people are isolating themselves from others by playing video games....and unless you set the bar higher in the development of your social skills, you will find yourself underprepared."<BR/><BR/>Then, on Sunday afternoon, Elder Oaks said, "Team sports and technology toys like video games and the Internet are already winning away the time of our children and youth...Some young people are amusing themselves to death—spiritual death."<BR/><BR/>As Jeff noted, the defenses of video games tend to be ironic: "If you say video games make you violent, I'll kill you!" Even more insidious is the "no harm" argument: "Most video games are harmless; they're just fun." <BR/><BR/>If they're so innocuous, why do they have such a strong hold on people? Why are so many addicts driven to such personal offense and virulent defenses of video games if they're just simple toys? Why is it such a big deal? If they're not a big deal, why not give them up? As these two Apostles have taught, even seemingly harmless games have negative consequences for those who miss out on real mental, social, and spiritual experiences by giving away their time to them.<BR/><BR/>Playing video games "isn't so bad?" They can be "a harmless hobby?" Sure. Same thing for smoking pot. It's hardly a ringing endorsement. <BR/><BR/>As Elder Whitney stated in the Priesthood Session, "If something in a movie [or video game] 'isn’t too bad,' that automatically means that it isn’t too good either."<BR/><BR/>It's not about seeing what you can justify, it's about raising the bar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-40038170262328117392007-10-14T18:33:00.000-05:002007-10-14T18:33:00.000-05:00Violence is inherent in who we are. It's enable...Violence is inherent in who we are. It's enabled the continuation of the species. It's only been very recently that it has become something that society no longer values (except of course when called upon by the state).<BR/><BR/>The blank slaters don't want to hear it, but much of what we become is genetically determined. Look at twin studies in drastically different environments.<BR/><BR/>Video games might play a very weak role as one of the tens of thousands of factors that is influencing the world we are in. (And yes I enjoyed the six qualifiers you put in that sentence. Seems to somehow take away some of the punch you were going for with your original entry.) However, if you are truly concerned about violence, it would seem that going after genetic engineers or even evolution itself might be a stronger course of action.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-62111550594372652942007-10-14T17:09:00.000-05:002007-10-14T17:09:00.000-05:00"Violent" games were defined as those in which int...<I>"Violent" games were defined as those in which intentional harm is done to a character motivated to avoid that harm. The definition was not an indication of the graphic or gory nature of any violence depicted in a game</I><BR/><BR/>Pac-man eats a cherry. Ghosts scatter. Pac-man chases down and eats ghost. Same impact on aggression as GTA or Halo? Somehow I find that hard to believe.<BR/><BR/>That said, however, the immersive and interactive nature of video games makes them a uniquely potent experience which I believe does impact gamers. People watching violent movies are passive (though immersed). Victims of a six-year old's violent drawings are passive (though imagined active). None of the characters in an online deathmatch are passive in any sense of the word.<BR/><BR/>Reminds me of "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde." Can we really expect to avoid becoming what we purposefully act like, even when we try to isolate it from "real life?"<BR/><BR/>(Apologies for posting twice in a row, but this was the Cliff Notes of my thoughts as it is)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-37760129558526984832007-10-14T16:47:00.000-05:002007-10-14T16:47:00.000-05:00I enjoy playing video games when I can (much to my...I enjoy playing video games when I can (much to my wife's dismay) but still see much cause for concern. <BR/><BR/>IMHO the attempt to shift the focus to bad parenting alone is somewhat of a red herring. It's like saying arguing that drug dealers aren't bad because good parents would keep their kids from buying drugs. I think (hope!) most people would agree that the only proper way for a parent to deal with a game like Manhunt is to keep their pre-teen far away from it, and yet there are major commercial interests that want nothing better than to put that game in the hands of children everywhere. Kind of like the action figures that came out right as "Starship Troopers" hit theaters. <BR/><BR/>Of course those kids weren't supposed to watch the *movie*, just play with the dolls </sarcasm><BR/><BR/>For both drugs and atrocious computer games, it might be true that lousy parenting and the general decay of society are major contributors, but these things are poison, pure and simple. Whether the child can avoid or overcome them due to other, good, influences is irrelevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-70662656983659068642007-10-14T03:41:00.000-05:002007-10-14T03:41:00.000-05:00Gday,I don't know how much is related to video gam...Gday,<BR/><BR/>I don't know how much is related to video games. I think that it more reflects life at home. I played many video games through my life and don't think it has a negative effect. I think that video games is a scapegoat for lack of parenting. Perhaps not a lack of parenting as a unsuitable role model. These kids that are harming themselves or going on a rampage. What sort of family life do they have? Are they beaten or neglected? Abuse would certainly explain a lot of the problems they are having and yes I agree that more family time and if scripture study would be great to have in homes. While I do feel that scripture study would be great, for those that don't have scriptures (those who don't believe or follow a different religion) I think that any positive family time is helpful to a child's mental state.<BR/><BR/>PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-71189815287471973222007-10-13T19:30:00.000-05:002007-10-13T19:30:00.000-05:00Then we are in agreement, all is well. Sorry, I ju...Then we are in agreement, all is well. Sorry, I just get a little defensive of video games sometimes, there are plenty of good ones, I just hate the bad ones like Grand Theft Auto that give the industry a bad image.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14869362692069856324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-76088308488640781572007-10-13T18:09:00.000-05:002007-10-13T18:09:00.000-05:00Steve, the point of the post was that parents need...Steve, the point of the post was that parents need to be more involved. How can parents "how to interpret the world around them" if they aren't aware that their world includes blowing out the brains of those in their way 200 times a day glorious interactive virtual reality? How can it be "childish" to encourage parents to consider violent video games as one of the factors that might be strongly influencing the world their children are in?Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-88507126370492699112007-10-13T12:12:00.000-05:002007-10-13T12:12:00.000-05:00Pointing the finger of blame at video games and ot...Pointing the finger of blame at video games and other media is childish, and ignores the deeper and more difficult issue to deal with, how they are raised. Yes, kids might get crazy ideas from violent video games, but it's the parents responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong. Yes, a game like Grand Theft Auto encourages criminal behavior and misrepresents reality, the game is a lie. School teachers, politicians, preachers, business executives, scientists, news reporters, fashion magazines, even the President, human beings tell lies, whether unintentional or to their own ends. It's up to parents to teach their children who to trust, who to believe, and how to interpret the world around them.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14869362692069856324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-58849467487040062802007-10-13T11:08:00.000-05:002007-10-13T11:08:00.000-05:00It should also be noted that when a teenager commi...It should also be noted that when a teenager commits suicide, the chances that his/her friends will want to do the same goes up.<BR/><BR/>I was a high school teacher in rural New Mexico, where this very thing happened. One kid did commit suicide at our school, and several of his friends were so despondant after the fact they felt the only way they could escape the pain of loosing a friend was to commit suicide themselves. That school year 5 kids committed suicide.<BR/><BR/>Consequently, in our school, the staff was trained on suicide prevention, the signs to look for, and we took all talk of death, dying, suicide very, very seriously!<BR/><BR/>It is important that if suicide does happen, that adults do get involoved with helping kids cope and understand the situation, and how to cope with the feelings of grief, or guilt the teen might be having.Mrs Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737295446780857349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-64869611413277662042007-10-13T10:50:00.000-05:002007-10-13T10:50:00.000-05:00There is certainly an increasing trend of young pe...There is certainly an increasing trend of young people, certainly from what I have seen in my own profession, of self-harm such as cut to arms, wrists and ankles.<BR/><BR/>It's all very disturbing =(<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think video games do have an impact to the statistics, but I would argue that issues run much deeper than this. There seems to be an increasing trend of attachment difficulties within families. It's all very sad; it is my prayer for God to have mercy and that He might use these disturbing situations for families to cry out to God for help...NMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019089593824237385noreply@blogger.com