tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post6574360751279860908..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Mormon's Codex: Rich Support for Book of Mormon PlausibilityJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-10583350874279767312018-08-10T01:41:28.784-05:002018-08-10T01:41:28.784-05:00Bought the book. Excellent. CES letter is idiotic....Bought the book. Excellent. CES letter is idiotic. Know your religion. I'm drunk but still a Mormon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-86181927803946707702014-11-03T19:02:53.778-06:002014-11-03T19:02:53.778-06:00Speaking of supporting evidence for the Book of Mo...Speaking of supporting evidence for the Book of Mormon in a historical sense, have you seen the recent reports on maize in ancient Indonesia (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/10/29/fossilized-maize-rice-found-temanggung.html) and the early Easter Islands-Americas DNA link?C Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01178189190498225759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-64285070916252502092014-05-03T14:11:42.707-05:002014-05-03T14:11:42.707-05:00@10:53
I'm not ignoring any evidence. If X is...@10:53<br /><br />I'm not ignoring any evidence. If X is plausible, X may or may not have happened. Just because the plausibility of X has been proven does not mean that X did indeed happen. On the other hand, if X is implausible, then we know that X did not happen. <br /><br />All of the examples you have cited are examples of the plausibility of the Book of Mormon. None of them prove that it actually happened or that Joseph translated it. If we add evidence which supports the implausibility of the book, then all the evidence agrees on one thing: it didn't happen. <br /><br />a&wAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-39586829622869879042014-05-03T00:59:51.542-05:002014-05-03T00:59:51.542-05:00Anonymous @10:53:
As with so many other tidbits of...Anonymous @10:53:<br />As with so many other tidbits of proof passed around in LDS circles, the cement and Sheum details are neither impressive nor completely accurate. Look around and research some more and you'll see.<br />And let's all disabuse ourselves of the notion that Joseph writing the Book of Mormon alone is the only possible way it could have come forth, and the only possible counter argument to naysayers. It is completely within reason that several others could have helped Joseph write it, over a long period of time. It's completely plausible.<br />There's something to be understood about miracles: they are, by definition, historically implausible. They are events least likely to occur, due to the fact that they happen so infrequently and with such shaky evidence. So if other evidence or theories come forward that could be true (multiple authors, multiple sources, it's all a scam, etc), those theories are inherently more plausible than a miracle. Arguing plausibility in the arena of faith is a dangerous game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-76928260278464397042014-05-02T10:51:51.498-05:002014-05-02T10:51:51.498-05:00Even Jeff will admit that there's no "smo...Even Jeff will admit that there's no "smoking gun" proving the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. Given that lack of definitive proof, the believers fall back on faith, and the rest of us rely on the preponderance of the evidence, which to me overwhelmingly points to a 19th-century origin.<br /><br />That is all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-77068788921221708832014-05-01T10:53:03.768-05:002014-05-01T10:53:03.768-05:00Long ago, The Book of Mormon was attacked because ...Long ago, The Book of Mormon was attacked because it mentioned cement. Everyone knew that Indians didn't know about cement! Then, as has happened repeatedly, cement was discovered, and better cement than we have today, for that matter. Now no one attacks the Book of Mormon on the basis of cement. How did Joseph Smith get that right? What about that nasty word Sheum that he made up as a grain? Turns out, "Sheum" is the name of a grain from babylonian or akkadian times. Again, how did Joseph Smith get that right? NHM. Chiasmus. Sophisticated legal analysis. And on and on and on.<br /><br />You cannot wave away the supporting evidence of the Book of Mormon as not even worthy of addressing. Take your Santa Claus analogy--Maybe you can demonstrate that Santa cannot fly, but then what explains the radar tracks, the hoof prints, the presents, etc? If you posit that X is impossible, then what explains all the evidence for X? <br /><br />It is impossible for metal objects to fly. Fact. No metal object is going to soar through the air for hours on end. Everyone from the 700's knows this. No metal object can fly--that would break the law of gravity and be impossible! Except, you know, we see the aircraft flying above us every day..... So there you go. You claim that Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon is impossible. Very Well, we've demonstrated that it is also impossible for Joseph Smith or anyone else in 1829-1830 to have written it. Yet it exists. It must be explained. You MUST address the evidence showing that it is impossible for anyone, let alone Joseph Smith, to have written it in 1829. Otherwise, you are the same as the 700's era farmer claiming that metal cannot fly, because, well, metal is too heavy! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-52809351692959717812014-04-28T11:36:30.313-05:002014-04-28T11:36:30.313-05:00Jeff makes a good point that evidences such as NHM...Jeff makes a good point that evidences such as NHM are only evidence of the plausibility of the Book of Mormon. In other words, it could have happened. These things do not support that the Book of Mormon did happen. There is a significant difference here.<br /><br />The issues in the CES letter are, however, evidence that the Book of Mormon is implausible, meaning that it could not and did not happen. The CES letter doesn't need to acknowledge the supporting evidence, because if it can show that it is not possible for the Book of Mormon to be a historical record, the evidence for plausibility is meaningless. For example, it doesn't matter how much evidence you have for the plausibility of Santa Claus, if I can prove Santa's ability to fly is implausible. In that case, Santa cannot exist in the form we normally depict him.<br /><br />Likewise for NHM. It doesn't matter who put NHM there or what it means. Maybe a group from Jerusalem did settle there, but if the Book of Mormon as a historical record is implausible, we cannot rely on the Book of Mormon to explain the occurrence of NHM. <br /><br />a&wAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-62390422638400417212014-04-25T08:08:03.009-05:002014-04-25T08:08:03.009-05:00Armenian, are you really asking me to google somet...Armenian, are you really asking me to google something for you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-4786510009796679362014-04-25T02:48:47.571-05:002014-04-25T02:48:47.571-05:00To Anon 12:07 AM, April 25, 2014
If NHM is only c...To Anon 12:07 AM, April 25, 2014<br /><br />If NHM is only convincing to LDS believers, then what is the "correct" version? <br />Please give us the true information. I am not being facetious. I am sincerely asking. I ask because so many say what you say without any information. It has been my experience that there are those (in any field of study, and on any subject) who do not agree with something or believe something, they will always come up with or say something to discredit what they do not believe. Everyone has their biases and opinions. Everyone. <br /><br />What does NHM stand for? What does NHM mean if it does not mean what the "biased" apologists says it means?<br /><br />Is there another NHM? With a burial ground? Is there another NHM elsewhere? Is there another NHM on the same route that Lehi took? Give the evidence and sources please. Thank you<br /><br />From: Armenian <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-9451699894578112182014-04-25T00:07:51.204-05:002014-04-25T00:07:51.204-05:00NHM is only evidence to believers. I've read a...NHM is only evidence to believers. I've read a lot about it over the years, and none of it is as convincing as faithful (aka biased) apologists seem to think. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-41991335501165961582014-04-24T21:27:19.043-05:002014-04-24T21:27:19.043-05:00How is it a hack job that italicized words inserte...How is it a hack job that italicized words inserted into the 17th century King James Bible are also used in the "ancient" Book of Mormon? <br /><br />And when was this ever debunked?<br /><br />FairMormon's answer is "we do not claim to know why the Lord chose to reveal the Biblical passages in that manner"<br /><br />http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Letter_to_a_CES_Director/Book_of_Mormon_Concerns_%26_Questions#.22What_are_1769_King_James_Version_edition_errors_doing_in_the_Book_of_Mormon.3F.22<br /><br />Do you have a better answer for this claptrap??<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-81942325081189693112014-04-24T17:10:45.352-05:002014-04-24T17:10:45.352-05:00A quick look at the aforementioned CES letter show...A quick look at the aforementioned CES letter shows that it is a sophisticated dialogue with the devil. By that I mean that if you went to Satan and asked him to tell you about Jesus, do you think you would walk away with any idea other than Jesus is the worst person ever? That's the CES letter--it is a hack job, it ignores any supporting evidence (like chiasmus, NHM, etc) and makes absolutely no effort to do anything other than rehash long debunked theories. It IS a nice resource for your standard list of anti-mormon claptrap, though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-71487954310663441362014-04-23T12:16:44.370-05:002014-04-23T12:16:44.370-05:00Thank you for the extensive review of this book. I...Thank you for the extensive review of this book. It will be some time before I have the available free time to dive into it, but Sorenson has fascinated me since his <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-American-Setting-Book-Mormon/dp/1573451576" rel="nofollow">An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon.</a> I agree with you (and Sorenson) that knowing where something happened has a great ability to shed light on what it teaches us. Visiting Israel showed me how straightforward many of Christ's lessons were to the people he was teaching, and it helped me to appreciate the scriptures in a new light. It would be wonderful to be able to do the same with the Book of Mormon in time.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04826309601023733396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-34184354852272206012014-04-23T08:26:43.473-05:002014-04-23T08:26:43.473-05:00Te CES letter is excellent and pretty much sums it...Te CES letter is excellent and pretty much sums it up for a lot of us apostates. Thanks for calling it to my attention.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-28549862293917992222014-04-22T21:15:00.327-05:002014-04-22T21:15:00.327-05:00The CES letter contains factual information that t...The CES letter contains factual information that the LDS church fails to address and hides behind apologists to address in an unofficial capacity. Therefore facts and the truth are anti-mormon. There is no need to expand any farther. The fraud of Joseph's Myth is disproven by its own lack of evidence in areas where it is expected to be found. Truth would be verified, not apoligectic-ized for.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-31958404867813767812014-04-22T09:37:17.854-05:002014-04-22T09:37:17.854-05:00It's very sad that something like this costs s...It's very sad that something like this costs so much, when so much of the anti-mormon material like the CES letter is free and easy to access.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-42030522284034175132014-04-21T16:07:58.894-05:002014-04-21T16:07:58.894-05:00Ditto what Jack Stickney said.
I will never be ...Ditto what Jack Stickney said. <br /><br />I will never be able to afford the majority of the books available that have to do with the LDS religion/church.<br /><br />But I will read what I can where I can. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-26421502594420733802014-04-21T10:28:37.953-05:002014-04-21T10:28:37.953-05:00Sounds like an interesting read. I appreciate you...Sounds like an interesting read. I appreciate your extensive review. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford it (it sounds expensive); but I look forward to learning more through your future commentary.Jack Stickneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505378303562292366noreply@blogger.com