tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post713328663687755098..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Golden "Or" in the Book of MormonJeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-14139609017935372932007-10-06T11:27:00.000-05:002007-10-06T11:27:00.000-05:00Offending comments have been deleted, so the patte...Offending comments have been deleted, so the pattern of trouble may be hard to understand from the outside. I'd rather not go into the list of past offenses. But read my more recent post reminding people of my policies.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-43786162263824031402007-10-04T05:47:00.000-05:002007-10-04T05:47:00.000-05:00I have been reading this topic with great interest...I have been reading this topic with great interest ...Can I just ask why everyone is giving Terrano a hard time? From what I have read so far, his comments are biblically sound.<BR/><BR/>Ecclesiates 12:13Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-60064526004551810822007-09-17T07:58:00.000-05:002007-09-17T07:58:00.000-05:00Dear Sketop,18 would be a fine compliment, 99 woul...Dear Sketop,<BR/><BR/>18 would be a fine compliment, 99 would be too old.<BR/><BR/>I am my own source for expression used - I read the Bible and ask God to show me His way. Maybe God has inspired some of the comments that I used - I would be happy to pass this glory to Him as my Saviour. <BR/><BR/>I am pleased that you find them interesting - some don't as you can also read.<BR/><BR/>Where raised - sorry I won't share that for fear of discrimination - it can all become too easy in these hot topics. Let us just say that I am from a considered educated western civilised country - and humble of my heritage and who God made me to be. <BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-69274130205134547042007-09-15T21:56:00.000-05:002007-09-15T21:56:00.000-05:00So, 18 then? Just curious. Were you raised in the ...So, 18 then? Just curious. Were you raised in the United States?<BR/><BR/>There's just something interesting about the expressions you use. Trying to figure out the source.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-60001880187060889042007-09-15T19:20:00.000-05:002007-09-15T19:20:00.000-05:00Dear LD James,Just returning your favours to stres...Dear LD James,<BR/><BR/>Just returning your favours to stress the point - not nice being treated that way, huh? But your comments are on record and it is definitely a huge, resounding and doubtful "if" !<BR/><BR/>I admit it was the biggest roundest most tasteful cherry on the bunch!<BR/><BR/>Oh and by the way Joseph Smith happens to be one of those men that you mention too, but unfortunately he is not worthy to tie the shoe laces of his counterpart in this discussion - Moses. No contest 'friend' I choose Moses, who rightly or wrongly, accurately or inaccurately recorded the 10 Commandments that WERE written by the finger of God. That is my choice to accept them for exactly what they ARE in my language - English, perfect for me to inset a firm foundation of my faith in God's instruction for my life. Good luck in yours based on golden hand me downs of dubious origins that contain an extremely suspicious "or".<BR/><BR/>In your instance an angel gave the teaching, in my instance God gave the teaching ...... hmmmmm who should I choose to follow....? If in doubt - the Bible verses that I mentioned two comments before give a clear reminder. <BR/>----------------------<BR/><BR/>Dear Sketop,<BR/>Welcome - I am between 18 and 99, blessed by God and perfectly legal.<BR/>Does my age matter ? Why do you ask? And by the way - how old are you ? Where do you come from ? Who are you with in your life ? And what will you teach your children about GOD'S love?<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-28642495238009448172007-09-14T20:38:00.000-05:002007-09-14T20:38:00.000-05:00Teranno, out of curiosity, could I ask roughly how...Teranno, out of curiosity, could I ask roughly how old you are?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67886354242852886162007-09-14T17:59:00.000-05:002007-09-14T17:59:00.000-05:00Teranno you claim I cherry pick? sheesh..."From y...Teranno you claim I cherry pick? <BR/><BR/>sheesh...<BR/><BR/>"From your last sentence in your response comment, the fatal word is 'if'. You clearly present doubt here about the BOM's accuracy, which shows that you still have unbelief yourself."<BR/><BR/><BR/>The point I was trying to make was that we are dependent on men and the accuracy of their writings not God's. No doubts here friend.<BR/><BR/>I can see why no one else has responded to you. You see what you want. I will not be making any further comment on this subject.bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091655088509351675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-53295456652949303282007-09-14T04:02:00.000-05:002007-09-14T04:02:00.000-05:00Dear Jeff,I too apologise for the lengthy reply, b...Dear Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I too apologise for the lengthy reply, but doubt was shown by LD James after his attempted damning report on my own sincerity.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this opportunity to correspond.<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-30900604458111250962007-09-14T04:00:00.000-05:002007-09-14T04:00:00.000-05:00Dear LD James,Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!!!I really...Dear LD James,<BR/><BR/>Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!!!<BR/><BR/>I really think that we need to have Jeff's guidance here as you have dug yourself a hole too deep to get out of : I quote -<BR/>"If everything they wrote down was accurate then I would have to say yes."<BR/><BR/>From your last sentence in your response comment, the fatal word is 'if'. You clearly present doubt here about the BOM's accuracy, which shows that you still have unbelief yourself.<BR/><BR/>I do not / and have never belittled the LDS faith. I disagree with your doctrines and the authority / validity of the BOM, but that does not automatically conjour up disrespect. You blame me of this because you are in a position of weakness for your foundation in belief.<BR/><BR/>The Bible is the source of God's Word to mankind. You can twist, wriggle and denounce it all you like, but Nephi, Alma, Mormon and Moroni, is not a patch on the writings of Moses, Daniel, Paul or John. To try and state that they are more accurate is totally deluded and definitely shows evidences of corporate kind of brainwashing. It is quite clear that Joseph Smith either translated it as such or plaguerised the KJV in his writing. As I said before safety in numbers is the Lemming's approach. Ponder on this error for a moment and choose to learn for yourself - and not from someone else in your faith. I am not forcing you to pay attention to me, but I am also free from corruption and I can learn about whatever I choose. That is freedom, but I choose to be a servant of God.<BR/><BR/>The essence of the whole matter is not about grammatical accuracy, but the context, precepts and overall message to the plan of salvation and it's personal guidance. You will find that is totally accurate in the KJV and consitent from whichever copy or original translation you wish to start with (not the vulgate!).<BR/><BR/>I end with the true Biblical authority for the definition of a prophet : <BR/>Deut 13:1-5<BR/> 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, <BR/> 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; <BR/> 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. <BR/> 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. <BR/> 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. <BR/><BR/>Verse 4 is clear that it is more important to follow God and keep his commandments, than follow the teachings of a prophet (should there be any ounce of doubt - and yes you clearly have over the accuracy of the BOM).<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-27180807070480637662007-09-13T13:17:00.000-05:002007-09-13T13:17:00.000-05:00Jeff I apologize for the lengthy comment.Jeff I apologize for the lengthy comment.bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091655088509351675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-80505720969472836932007-09-13T13:16:00.000-05:002007-09-13T13:16:00.000-05:00Teranno:Lets go through your point 3 from just abo...Teranno:<BR/><BR/>Lets go through your point 3 from just above.<BR/><BR/>"God significantly wrote three times with His finger as recorded in the Bible." <BR/>I agree.<BR/><BR/>"Do you question each occasion based on the fact that you have no evidence of the original writings ?"<BR/><BR/>I don't question the general teachings found, for example the 10 commandments. Like Jeff said earlier, I am sure they are still pretty close. But we don't have the original writings so we don't KNOW for sure anything. What do we have? Copies of copies of copies like stated by Jeff earlier. <BR/><BR/>"Did Creation or the Tower of Babel actually happen ?"<BR/><BR/>Well, I know Jesus Christ as the Creator of this Earth and everything on it. So yes for the first part. Tower of Babel, I would say yes. Book of Ether in the Book of Mormon confirms this. Isn't modern revelation fantastic?<BR/><BR/>"Have you NO faith at all that God has allowed all the events to be recorded this way for us today ?" <BR/><BR/>I do have faith. I believe that God does love us so very much and allowed all events to be recorded in ancient writing upon plates of brass, of gold, of stone, and on paper, etc and have come forth in the form of the Bible and Book of Mormon. After Man has gotten hold of these and translated them over and over and copied over and over again I doubt the full perfectness of the Bible. This does not mean I do not think that God and/or His prophets got it wrong. Especially God, He is perfect, but men are not.<BR/><BR/>"Doesn't faith play a major part ?"<BR/><BR/>I believe so. I have faith in God. Not in Man. I also have faith and a testimony that other scriptures along with the Bible have been brought forth. <BR/><BR/>"Or maybe the capital letters, the punctuation and grammar is more important for you to criticize and question?"<BR/><BR/>If incorrect essential principles and concepts are not merely grammar and punctuation.<BR/><BR/>"For me I refuse to question God on this by just accepting His Divine Law in the most pure record available in the English language approved by Hebrew scholars (to whom I have access)."<BR/><BR/>Once again we are not questioning God but the men that translated and copied. <BR/>What is saying these Hebrew scholars are correct?<BR/><BR/>"Whichever way you read into it the message, precepts and way to salvation remains the same. That can not be under any question."<BR/><BR/>Only when they are translated correctly, copied correctly, or interpreted correctly.<BR/><BR/>"The 10 Commandments were perfect in their purity when written. Wherever they are today the purity is forever recorded on stone. Fact not fiction. Maybe one day they will be found and you can reconsider this absurd electronic conversation."<BR/><BR/>Yes when they were written by the hand of God they were pure and wherever they are now I am sure they are perfect. And when they are found lets take a gander but until then there is only speculation on both sides and only personal conviction to ride on.<BR/><BR/>"I am not a fundamentalist - so it is unfair to me (and rude again)."<BR/><BR/>Well, now you know how it feels to be called something you don't feel as though you represent. <BR/><BR/>I find it rude of you to belittle the religion I believe in but I guess that doesn't matter and you will continue to do so. No matter how many time you say you don't mean to, you still are.<BR/><BR/>Finally to the last question posed to me.<BR/><BR/>"Where does the questioning doubt about error in the Bible actually stop - and do you personally believe the BOM to be the 'most correct' book, held in a higher level of accuracy than the Bible as quoted by Bookslinger ? "<BR/><BR/>Yes I believe it to be more accurate because only one person has translated it. There were prophets that wrote upon the Golden Plates which the Book of Mormon was taken from. If everything they wrote down was accurate then I would have to say yes.bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091655088509351675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-40494624939240279112007-09-13T03:33:00.000-05:002007-09-13T03:33:00.000-05:00Dear LD James,Nor do you read too well either. Unl...Dear LD James,<BR/><BR/>Nor do you read too well either. Unless your name is also Jeff / Mormanity, my last comment is awaiting his reply and was inttended for him. <BR/><BR/>Since you obviously have 'cherry picked' out of context yet again one minor point I made, please take the whole of point 3 , in context and answer me again on the whole point - with specific answers to my questions please. Not criticisms of the Law that you claim are 'copies of copies'. This is the part which I find ludicrously absurd in the extreme. Reason - Jesus himself referred to many of the Commandments Himself and yet all of them can be found in the NT if you choose to look for yourself! Again an unfounded remark, by someone who personally prefers not to believe in God's own word. In this comment I do not assert this to all LDS in general and to you LD James it is NOT a condemnation - only an observation before you get touhy about it.<BR/><BR/>To you LD James - if you dearly want to comment - I refer you to answer my previously unanswered comments :<BR/>"If you doubt this accuracy - then you doubt Moses record. If you doubt Moses record, then many of the beliefs of Creation and the Flood - for two examples - become nothing more than an erroneous fable. Your Biblical faith of salvation will be built on shifting sand and eventually blown away. Where does the questioning doubt about error in the Bible actually stop - and do you personally believe the BOM to be the 'most correct' book, held in a higher level of accuracy than the Bible as quoted by Bookslinger ? "<BR/><BR/>Questioningly again,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-17502432958119656312007-09-12T22:01:00.000-05:002007-09-12T22:01:00.000-05:00Teranno, with this statement you show that you don...Teranno, with this statement you show that you don't really read/listen well. <BR/><BR/>"The 10 Commandments were perfect in their purity when written. Wherever they are today the purity is forever recorded on stone. Fact not fiction. Maybe one day they will be found and you can reconsider this absurd electronic conversation."<BR/><BR/>We all know this. But what we don't know is where they are or what they actually say. Like Jeff already said, we have copies of copies of copies.bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091655088509351675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-75734198329066786512007-09-11T10:19:00.000-05:002007-09-11T10:19:00.000-05:00Dear Jeff / Mormanity,I personally believe that yo...Dear Jeff / Mormanity,<BR/><BR/>I personally believe that you are being unfair all around. <BR/><BR/>1. By using your own rules for engagement you highlight your post about idolatry - which you advised against above....<BR/><BR/>2. I never called you or anyone else an idolater - you wrote your post - I responded with Biblical verse and reasonings - in fact I even stated that most LDS would be apalled at the concept. However it doesn't change the actual fact that a golden graven image of an angel (carved by man's hand) is in situ on a place of worship. It was always the concept that I have questioned - not the practice of your worship! Personally, it is not something that sits well with me.<BR/><BR/>3. God significantly wrote three times with His finger as recorded in the Bible. Do you question each occasion based on the fact that you have no evidence of the original writings ? Did Creation or the Tower of Babel actually happen ? Have you NO faith at all that God has allowed all the events to be recorded this way for us today ? Doesn't faith play a major part ? Or maybe the capital letters, the puntuation and grammar is more important for you to criticise and question? For me I refuse to question God on this by just accepting His Divine Law in the most pure record available in the English language approved by Hebrew scholars (to whom I have access). Whichever way you read into it the message, precepts and way to salvation remains the same. That can not be under any question.<BR/>The 10 Commandments were perfect in their purity when written. Wherever they are today the purity is forever recorded on stone. Fact not fiction. Maybe one day they will be found and you can reconsider this absurd electronic conversation.<BR/><BR/>4. I am not a fundamentalist - so it is unfair to me (and rude again).<BR/><BR/>Jeff you have a brilliant mind. Why do you choose to fight God with it over an 'or' that he could have inspired a change over, if it was His mistake ? <BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-52691186124079922172007-09-11T09:26:00.000-05:002007-09-11T09:26:00.000-05:00Teranno, you have insisted that the Ten Commandmen...Teranno, you have insisted that the Ten Commandments has been perfectly preserved. I think the key concepts have been, certainly, but it's important to recognize that we don't have the original text from Moses, but copies of copies of copies - and there are variations among the many manuscripts. Your previous statements on its supremacy and perfection are open to some questions - minor questions, though, compared to the bigger question of how we apply them today (calling people idolaters for using artistic images reflects the intolerant attitude that I called "fundamentalist" - but that was unfair to fundamentalists). <BR/><BR/>To understand the type of questions that must be considered in dealing with biblical texts, consider the earliest document we have with the Ten Commandments: the Nash Papyrus. You can read about it at <A HREF="http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebrandt/OTeSources/02-Exodus/Text/Articles/Burkitt-10Commands-JQR.pdf" REL="nofollow">THe Jewish Quarterly Review, 1903</A>. This ancient manuscript has elements from both the Exodus and Deuteronomy versions, and some other changes. So which version for each of the verses with changes is the correct one? And how do you know?Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-403039909103701792007-09-11T03:26:00.000-05:002007-09-11T03:26:00.000-05:00Dear Jeff / Mormanity,There is no need to be short...Dear Jeff / Mormanity,<BR/><BR/>There is no need to be short-tempered and rude about it! Where is your Christ-like spirit in your communications ? <BR/><BR/>I am not 'anti' any faith. I simply ask 'possibility' questions. If you personally think that I am fundamentalist, then you too are mistaken and easily refuted. But for the final time, please wake up to the world outside the LDS bubble. If not then your bubble will be burst in no uncertain terms - it has been prophecied! And stop calling me 'anti' - I am not! I am one of the most tolerant men that you could wish to meet. But I will stand up for Biblical verse when necessary.<BR/><BR/>In answer to your question, Moses recorded the Exodus 20 Commandments as a copy of the original - this MUST have been audited by Aaron for accuracy! The texts in Deuteronomy are clearly given by mouth to the people. Question - when you personally preach - do you just read your notes - or do you let the Spirit guide you? It was the same with Moses at this time - the people needed the message not individual words - they are preserved for all mankind. It's funny your comments, because the principals between the two records still are identical and in that I don't see your point.<BR/><BR/>Thank you,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-2601170286775995162007-09-10T23:03:00.000-05:002007-09-10T23:03:00.000-05:00Look, I don't doubt the accuracy of the 10 Command...Look, I don't doubt the accuracy of the 10 Commandments. That's not the issue. But I would like to ask you why there are differences between the way they are expressed in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. If they are so carefully and perfectly preserved, why shouldn't the second giving of the law establish them verbatim? And are you sure that every letter in the Ten Commandments has been preserved in all the Hebrew manuscripts we have?<BR/><BR/>And I don't expect back slapping. I do expect dialog - listening, reasoning, seeking to understand - not monotonous reiteration of off-topic points or constant criticism of other faiths (Cahtolic, LDS, whatever) without seeking to understand or respond to defenses that are offered. Just calling everyone idolaters and Satanists who don't agree with an easily-refuted fundamentalist interpretation doesn't make for very interesting reading. It gets old.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-9687699644722769452007-09-10T13:01:00.000-05:002007-09-10T13:01:00.000-05:00Dear All,I will also state clearly for you...I hav...Dear All,<BR/><BR/>I will also state clearly for you...<BR/><BR/>I have never said that the Bible as a whole was 'inerrant'. I acknowledge the potential for translational errors / misinterpretations.<BR/><BR/>What I have stated is that if Moses received the 10 Commandments and copied them into the pentateuch under the watchful eye of Aaron and the other nominted priests, it is highly unlikely that any errors were made at all. In this instance the 10 Commandments as written by God's finger (twice) on stone are just as important (and accurate) today as when they were first presented to Moses. <BR/><BR/>If you doubt this accuracy - then you doubt Moses record. If you doubt Moses record, then many of the beliefs of Creation and the Flood - for two examples - become nothing more than an erroneous fable. Your Biblical faith of salvation will be built on shifting sand and eventually blown away. Where does the questioning doubt about error in the Bible actually stop - and do you personally believe the BOM to be the 'most correct' book, held in a higher level of accuracy than the Bible as quoted by Bookslinger ?<BR/><BR/>Questioningly,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-29318751285550532512007-09-10T11:45:00.000-05:002007-09-10T11:45:00.000-05:00Dear Jeff / Mormanity,I am pleased to be able to c...Dear Jeff / Mormanity,<BR/><BR/>I am pleased to be able to converse with you all and I do find it of particular benefit personally. Can I take it from your tone that because I am not of the LDS pursuasion that you are inviting me not to partcipate any further ? Is this a closed shop only for LDS believers then ? <BR/><BR/>You have written without pulling any punches about skepticism, idolatry and now accuracy in presentation, but it seems ever increasing to me that you (and most commenters) just want to receive a whole heap of back-slapping for a 'feel good' factor in your belief.<BR/><BR/>'Feel good' plays no part in true Spirituality reflecting Jesus. 'Feel good' leads to pride and self exaltation, both of which tend to place oneself before one's own thoughts of almighty God. Empty self and esk Him to fill us completely - this is the way to go! <BR/><BR/>I only made the reference 'off topic' about your 'idolatry' post in that I was referring to comments made there about the Absolute Truth of the 10 Commandments. This is why I personally see a golden 'or' as irrelevant and contradictory 'as written from God'.<BR/><BR/>If you or commenters don't agree then that's your perogative, but leave the back-slapping encouragement of deception alone please. <BR/><BR/>Still with respect to all,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-17563578371923828782007-09-08T18:56:00.000-05:002007-09-08T18:56:00.000-05:00Teranno, this post was about the use of "or" in th...Teranno, this post was about the use of "or" in the Book of Mormon, but you are back harping on crazy notion that we are practicing idolatrous sun worship. I really think you need to get your own blog rather than living here. Off-topic, lengthy posts are simply going to be deleted.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-21374150649306459782007-09-08T09:45:00.000-05:002007-09-08T09:45:00.000-05:00I am also truly surprised to hear you say the Dead...I am also truly surprised to hear you say the Dead Sea Scrolls have only minor typographical differences relative to the Masoretic Text. The reality is that there are many substantial changes - dramatic changes - although a large number of verses in the Masoretic Text agree with those in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Scholars, aware of how rapidly texts can be changed, were surprised at the apparent high degree of integrity, and their comments in this regard apparently have been misinterpreted by some of the inerrant Bible folks to bolster their belief that everything has been well preserved. While the changes have not been as dramatic as expected, there are still substantial differences that go far beyond your claim.<BR/><BR/>For an overview of the scope of the differences between the DSS and the MT, see <A HREF="http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/sources/deadseascrolls.htm" REL="nofollow">this page from BibleandScience.com</A>.<BR/><BR/>You're welcome to believe that everything of importance has been perfectly preserved, but that is simply a belief without any logical basis. Comparison of the many different ancient texts shows significant doctrinal issues have been affected. There is simply no question about that. Fortunately, we have a second witness for many key Biblical issues in the Book of Mormon.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-87876869304138896812007-09-08T09:23:00.000-05:002007-09-08T09:23:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-43559348531049988432007-09-06T08:47:00.000-05:002007-09-06T08:47:00.000-05:00Teranno4x4,Sorry, but throwing an argument about s...Teranno4x4,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but throwing an argument about sun worship at me that a third commenter raised in a different thread is indeed 'bouncing around.' Nor, might I add, did you address the response I gave you. <BR/><BR/>Since you do not appear interested in genuine dialogue and call differences of opinion 'attacks' and 'scorn,' I don't think this conversation has much further use. You accuse us of being incapable of thinking critically about our beliefs, yet I see no evidence that you have done so regarding your own. Good day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-67257506660767296262007-09-06T08:00:00.000-05:002007-09-06T08:00:00.000-05:00teranno4x4You couldn't have made my point more cle...teranno4x4<BR/><BR/>You couldn't have made my point more clearly (even if it was liturgical). You accuse MOrmonism of being Pagan-like for worshipping the sun. Using your criteria, I could vilify every Biblical prophet who uses the sun as any kind of analogy.<BR/><BR/>Context and meaning indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-59316903134414490692007-09-06T04:26:00.000-05:002007-09-06T04:26:00.000-05:00Dear Anon and Erelis,Do as you like, believe as yo...Dear Anon and Erelis,<BR/><BR/>Do as you like, believe as you like and scorn as you like. The evidence that I present is fact not fiction. <BR/><BR/>It's hard to get away from and digest - that's why you find it so difficult to accept - it's alien to what you have been told to be true. Unfortunately for you - I do live in the real world and I can reason, but again please read the history of these posts. You claim I am 'bouncing around' - I only answer the questions and criticism that you raise yourselves. Look at the bigger picture in the Bible by actually venturing there - not just observing from an 'ivory tower'!<BR/><BR/>Christian greetings,<BR/><BR/>Teranno4x4Teranno4x4https://www.blogger.com/profile/08907963173025554195noreply@blogger.com