tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post8281481590238177868..comments2023-11-02T07:25:45.884-05:00Comments on Mormanity - a blog for those interested in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Feeling Blue About the Red Sea in the Book of Mormon?Jeff Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-5004698582084837672019-10-20T10:16:07.481-05:002019-10-20T10:16:07.481-05:00ATV, oh, right: ATV = Analysis of Textual Variant...ATV, oh, right: ATV = Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon (Critical Text of the Book of Mormon), and in particular, Part Two: 2 Nephi 11 - Mosiah 16. Mercifully, a PDF of the relevant portion is <a href="https://interpreterfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Textual-Variants-Vol-4-part2.pdf" rel="nofollow">available at The Interpreter Foundation</a> website. I am quite impressed by the analysis and must conclude that this is the best option for understanding 2 Nephi 19:1. Likely to have been original, whether from Mormon or Nephi or the brass plates, and NOT Oliver's scribal error. Very nice. <br /><br />And Robert, that's also an interesting angle that is consistent with the position taken in the ATV, but adds a great example in support of what is in the Book of Mormon. Many thanks!Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-24643864784456158442019-10-19T10:25:09.093-05:002019-10-19T10:25:09.093-05:00Hi Jeff.
Interestingly, in The Chaldee paraphrase...Hi Jeff.<br /><br />Interestingly, in The Chaldee paraphrase of the Prophet Isaiah by Jonathan ben Uzziel, we read the following from Isa 9:1 (italics in original):<br /><br />For none shall be weary who shall come to oppress them, as at the former times, when the people of the land of Zebulun, and the people of the land of Naphtali, went into captivity: and those that were left, a mighty king led into captivity, because they did not remember the power of the <i>Red</i> Sea, neither the wonders of the Jordan, the war of the fortifications of the nations.[1]<br /><br />What is interesting about this text is that the translator, C.W.H. Pauli, added "Red" to "Sea," something that also appears in 2 Nephi 19:1 and its version of Isa 9:1. Perhaps Joseph Smith or the translator of the Isaiah text on the brass plates added "Red" as a clarification as to which location was intended by the prophet Isaiah.<br /><br />[1] The Chaldee Paraphrase of the Prophet Isaiah (trans. CW.H. Pauli; London: London Society's House, 1871), 29-30; online at https://archive.org/stream/chaldeeparaphra00uzzigoog#page/n44/mode/2upRobert Boylanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01252989841442658670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-58004180043453366502019-10-19T06:59:47.091-05:002019-10-19T06:59:47.091-05:00ATV, that makes a lot of sense! This is related to...ATV, that makes a lot of sense! This is related to Pyle's view on it being something either on the brass plates or from Nephi, and you help explain how that may have happened. Many thanks! Jeff Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776493593387402607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-25855959276677874492019-10-18T09:09:21.710-05:002019-10-18T09:09:21.710-05:00Here's what ATV has on the subject.
Tvedtnes ...Here's what ATV has on the subject.<br /><br />Tvedtnes argues that the change to Red Sea derived from previous references in the Book of Mormon to the Red Sea: “This appears to be a case of scribal overcorrection, due to prior mention of the Red Sea in the [Book of Mormon] text.” The examples in 1 Nephi, however, do not show any particular similarity to the phraseology in 2 Nephi 19:1. In particular, the word way never collocates with Red Sea:<br /><br />Examples.<br /><br />A more likely source for the intrusive red in the Book of Mormon text is the explicit phrase “by the way of the Red Sea”, which occurs four times in the King James Bible:<br /><br />Examples.<br /><br />It appears that familiarity with this specific phrase led to replacing sea with Red Sea in 2 Nephi 19:1. This proposal implies that the intrusive red (actually /s¯uf/ ‘reed’ in the original Hebrew) may have originally been on the plates of brass or that Nephi himself added the word as he copied the Isaiah text from the plates of brass onto his small plates. Further, there is no evidence within the Book of Mormon manuscripts themselves that any of the scribes ever added red to the word sea (out of 82 occurrences), even as an initial error that was immediately corrected. This evidence suggests that the intrusive red in 2 Nephi 19:1, even though it may be a mistake, is a part of the original Book of Mormon text. Thus the critical text will maintain the earliest textual reading, “by the way of the Red Sea”.ATVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-30388218770793296652019-10-18T07:34:43.819-05:002019-10-18T07:34:43.819-05:00"This verse is a quotation of Isaiah 9:1"..."This verse is a quotation of Isaiah 9:1" "This may be a legitimate problem" "The problem is that this cannot be proven or disproven " : Darn if only a prophet seer and revelator could clear this all up .... guess I will have just wait just a little bit longer until I am issued my own seer stone, but then I will will be too busy looking up things like who really killed JFK ...<br /><br />"was lifted from the King James rather than translated from an accurate ancient text" : !!!, you are challenging official publications, for example September 1977 Ensign citing Dnaiel Ludow, which suggests that Joseph may have adopted the Isaiah passages wording from the King James.<br /><br />Lifting from the KJV means that the BoM is not what it claims to be!!! And you have not been excommunicated? Hum, excommunication must not be about what one says, but how they say it. Now that sounds like part of the product attributable to fallible human hands ...<br />"there's an argument that it may be acceptable" : Of course there is, there always is. Just watch the youtube videos of an artist given a doodle of what appears to be an "inappropiate" image and then the artist draws all around it until it is no longer "inappropiate". With a little bit of pratice anyone can do it.<br /><br />"the concept of" .... "divine aid" ... "through fallible human hands" : Given many religions belief this describes every product of humanity, many religions agree with you on this descriptor of the BoM. The ancient Romans would not have a called Joseph Smith a genius, they would have said Genius visited him.<br /><br />"deliberately changing "sea" to "Red Sea" would make no sense. " : "deliberately"? Now that misdirection is a great way to pull the mental hamstring just right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-11418412914155317632019-10-18T06:36:24.959-05:002019-10-18T06:36:24.959-05:00Anon 11:14 - Now that is feeling red about a blue...Anon 11:14 - Now that is feeling red about a blue sea. Twister may be currently marketed as a kids game, but for adults it is a great calisthenic, and can put in the mood. If playing is causing you pain, it is only because you are playing it wrong, not following the instructions, you have a medical condition you did not consult your doctor about before playing. Or you have sour grapes, you keep losing so you blame the game instead of yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7139169.post-75981020736186143342019-10-17T23:14:43.014-05:002019-10-17T23:14:43.014-05:00Another steaming helping of pure nonsense. No than...Another steaming helping of pure nonsense. No thanks, Jeff! 40 years was enough!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com